Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

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  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In Ontario WES is used by most professional associations. A way around that is to get another evaluation from the alliance and become a member from a professional association at a different province and then try to transfer it to Ontario. At the end of the day, membership in a professional association is way more power than any evaluation service report.
    Technically even in Ontario, professional associations should take any reports from the alliance as this is what the federal government is recognizing. In practice every province has its preferences, in Quebec for example the provincial government only accepts Quebec certificates for provincial government jobs.
    Foreign credential recognition is complex. Even, some local Universities are not recognized within Canada. Yorkville for example, it is not recognized by all universities as they are a private university which is a strange concept in Canada where most provinces do not allow private universities.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Perhaps. I looked into that, but at the time we had no choice but to hold the College to their rules as written at the time (they used WES as "non-binding" and the standard was "recognized in it's province of jurisdiction"). At the end, my friend has her card and will hold onto her unionized job at the public Catholic school board till retirement, and I hope to never again deal with Canadian regulators and/or courts, in Ontario or another province.
     
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Its logical in my view to have some differences. WES USA focus on application of the degrees in the USA, US Universities. WES Canada compares the degrees to degrees in Canada, Canadian Universities, education and professional licensing and provincial laws and regulations etc.

    I always thought that there was that partition in place.
     
  4. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    That makes perfect sense. I guess I never thought about it. I assumed WES was giving evaluations between all sorts of countries, but in reality they convert other countries' credentials into American or Canadian ones and that's it. There are other evaluators if I wanted to find the equivalency of say, a Senegalese degree in the Australian system.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I have used UK Naric that is recognized in Europe. However, they also dont recognize propio degrees neither DEAC degrees. They only recognized official degrees so this leaves out propio degrees from Azteca. They might recognize UCN, technically they should but one has to test it.
    The UK system is also very complex, if you have a positive UK Naric evaluation it might be refused by a University or vice versa. In Australia, the government recognizes some professional associations for foreign degree evaluation recognition such as CPA australia.
    In other parts of Europe such as Spain, one must have a University evaluate your degree and give you an official recognition of your degree.

    The US is also complex, one might be able to practice naturopathy with an unaccredited degree in one state and not in another state. Licenses also dont transfer to all states. Some states are open to recognize foreign licenses from Canada and other countries while others don't.
     
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  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The conclusion and the best practice is make sure the university degree is recognized and ranked well in the country one is going to utilize the degree.
    Its understood that there are good reasons why one may check earning a degree from other providers such as time, cost, student service, etc but anything else is do it on your own risk.
     
  7. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az New Member

    Ain't that the truth. I'm not sure if it's a XAMK policy or a Finnish policy in general but they will not mail a transcript to anyone. Because of this, WES will not evaluate credits from XAMK.
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Well, this makes me wonder. Is it mail fraud to print the transcript and send it yourself with XAMK's return address on the envelope? Also, I wonder if USPS will send it domestically if you use an international stamp :emoji_thinking:

    I may not be an evil genius, but I'm certainly capable of genius evil! :emoji_smiling_imp:
     
  9. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az New Member

    Obviously, what you need to do is make friends with someone living in Finland who can print out the transcript and send it to you or WES. :emoji_laughing:
     
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  10. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    The following PDF gives an overview on how some countries would evaluate certain foreign credentials. Pages 41 to 46 of this document is what we have discussed a lot on this forum concerning Universidad Isabel I /ENEB and propio degrees in general. Pages 51 to 53 evaluation of cross-border programs (validation programs) is what we discuss a lot concerning UCN, Azteca, SMC, Texilla and others.

    https://www.taicep.org/taiceporgwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Evaluating-Credentials-with-a-Global-Mindset-The-Discussion-Continues.pdf
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Great find, in the case of UCN and Azteca for Canada the equivalence is:
    CANADA • ICAS would not recognize this credential because it is a validated degree completed at an institution not authorized to award degrees'

    US:
    SpanTran • Master of Business Administration only because the awarding university is recognized • However, any credit conversion would be noted as completed at an unrecognized/nonaccredited institution


    So it looks like UCN should be considered equivalent by Spantran but not by ICAS. Azteca probably would not be considered equivalent because it is not recognized in home country.
    Titulo propios from Spain from Isabel would be for the most part non accredited because issued by a private University.
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Is there an earlier document? I seem to recall a document (I believe you posted it) that said SpanTran was only recommending Propios to be evaluated for graduate credit.

    EDIT: I see now, it's the same document.
     
  13. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I believe UCN does all of their foreign evaluations for students through SpanTran according to a graduate from UCN's PhD program. However, the college that they tried to teach at did not accept SpanTran so the student had to go through another evaluator which gave the desired PhD from a regional accredited university equivalency. SpanTran also has a similar stance to IEE which will evaluate for graduate credit but not for a degree for the Master propio. So it seems that IEE and SpanTran are among the most progressive NACES evaluators for the US.
     
  14. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I have to say, this document did not give me the warm and fuzzies for academic evaluators. It's bonkers to me that they would evaluate, for example, a Masters from a UK university as a degree "begrudgingly" because the coursework was completed elsewhere. I get that academic norms can vary between countries, but by that logic, TESU shouldn't evaluate as a degree in Canada.

    And the one where the two RA international schools would be evaluated at a fraction of the recommended transfer credit had me curious so, I did something I rarely do, I called a college registrar. I called up my old school (Scranton) as I recalled from earlier days that the registrar's office is fairly small and I felt like I could get a non-robotic answer and I asked "What would I need to do to transfer in foreign credits?" they said "Get a degree evaluation." I said "What if the foreign school was also accredited by a US regional accreditor?" to which they said "Then it isn't really a 'foreign' school for our purposes. The accreditation satisfies the evaluation requirement and would be evaluated just like any other US based school." Which makes a lot more sense than some private company deciding that RA means something different if it takes place outside of the borders of the U.S. and is involved in a cross border degree program.
     
  15. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Athabasca University, headquartered in Alberta, Canada where I did my undergrad online is RA (Middle States), and both Quantic (NA) and Eastern (RA) accepted it as a prerequisite without an evaluation because of that, even though I was prepared to send my transcript to WES.
     
  16. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I would suspect that is more the norm. And it annoys me that these other companies are sitting here at conferences talking about a way they're going to screw students out of credit transfers or potentially broader educational opportunities because, I imagine, they feel that acting like they have a "higher" standard shows they offer value.
     
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  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The funny thing about you saying that is that meanwhile I tell any international students who will listen to go to Canadian universities rather than U.S. ones because the path to remain permanently afterwards is so much easier. Canada is far superior to the U.S. in this regard.
     
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  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    True, especially with Post-Graduate Work Permit, Canada Experience Class, and now that half the time spent on Study Permit counts towards citizenship again. Canadian immigration system is far more pragmatic (occasional weirdness of the fine Public Service notwithstanding). And there is no better potential immigrant than a recent grad.

    Still, getting Canadian PR and a passport then moving south by exploiting Treaty National status is a well-beaten path.
     
  19. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Is this referring to the TN Visa? It might work if you're in a profession that allows you to earn a high wage for a short period of time, but only lasts 3 years and each time the bar to proving you'll go home goes up.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    TN lets one to bypass the broken H1B, and Canadians are not scrutinized nearly as much as citizens of other countries. Compared to other paths, this represents a shortcut for some (not all). US really needs to work on their immigration system.
     
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