Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Maybe personal enrichment. I doubt he's done earning grad degrees either.

    I don't see his CV being an issue in academia. If he leaves that field then he's likely to be questioned, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he would know better and limit himself to only listing the degree or degrees that are directly relevant to the jobs he's applying for.
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is just an example of the risks of having cheap and flexible degrees. I have seen CVs in Spain with Masters in many fields. If it costs 200 bucks to get a Masters, give me one of Big Data, another one for Finance, maybe one in HR and some fries with it. ENEB makes it easy for you to get a second, third or fourth MAsters by taking few extra classes so one can end with 5 masters. Most Universities only accept about 20% of the course taken but Spanish degrees are designed for people to take multiple degrees. Actually, ENEB normally sells the MBA/MA as a combo for an attractive price of less than 300.
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    This raises an interesting point. Many universities do not allow you to apply the same courses twice for the same program at the graduate level (because you're only taking 10 courses, you can't transfer 50% of the coursework into a new Master's in a closely-related field.) ENEB does allow you to do this so you can stack multiple Masters.

    Do other Spanish schools do this? Do other propio-offering Spanish schools?
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I cannot tell you about the other schools but as these are propio degrees, they are not regulated so they are designed to increase consumption. ENEB programs are designed so you can easily end with 5 masters degree just by taking extra 5 to 6 extra classes as you are allowed to transfer the credits as many times as needed.

    So a CV can end with 5 masters degrees in different fields in a short period of time. The prospect employer would just think that they were purchased and that this school is not credible.
    innen_oda likes this.
  5. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Sounds like what a non-accredited Masters degree here in the US would do for most people. I think WES evaluation of ENEB was the most accurate in my opinion. A stamp of legitimacy to use on a resume but not a great standalone for academic advancement. I'll put these degrees in the same category as a religiously-exempt school like University of Sedona. There is still some work to be done to earn them but they are way too flexible to be accredited.

    Of course there is academic credit that is earned and transferable.
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That makes it sound like it's trivial to take five or six more courses, and that's not what I'm hearing from people who are actually in one of their programs.
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Okay, LOL! I'm sorry, but that's going off the rails. I'm literally laughing while typing this, not at you, but just the way we keep trying to place this into different scenes when the scene has already been set. Can we all just agree on what's been returned?

    ECE = U.S. Regionally accredited Bachelor's degree equivalent
    WES = U.S. Non-accredited Master's degree equivalent
    Unknown evaluator = 30 credit Graduate Diploma
    Accepted, valid 60 ECTS Master's degree in Spain/EU

    If the things we try to compare ENEB's programs to don't match those outcomes, then the comparison doesn't fit.
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You can check by yourself

    The school sells programs as Combos MBA+MA. If you analyze, there is a high level of overlap among programs which makes it appealing for people to keep getting more degrees.

    If I get a combo, it is not so difficult to get a third or fourth MA with some extra classes. For example, If I get the MBA+MA in Ecommerce combo, I can get the MA in Big data with another 4 classes and then a MA in Marketing with another class for a total of 4 masters degrees.
    If I want to continue piling up degrees, all I need is to find the next in line that gets me the most overlap and so on.
    innen_oda likes this.
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    True, they do allow that and a lot of U.S. schools wouldn't, but it's orthogonal to the point I was making.
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In Canada, University of Sedona has been evaluated as a non accredited degree from the US. As University of Sedona does not grant degrees in regulated fields. it is legal to call your self PhD in Metaphysics from UoS although you will have almost no chance of getting hired as a professor of philosophy because of this degree. The term "PhD" is not regulated as long as you don't call yourself Doctor that is a regulated term in many provinces.

    ENEB programs are mainly business programs that are mainly non regulated in Canada. It is legal to call yourself MBA ENEB in Canada with this degree even if unaccredited. There is no regulation that protects the title MBA. It is up to the discretion of the employer to accept a non accredited degree so if the employer is convinced that you are qualified, the degree has value.
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    RA accredited wouldn't but non accredited might. Someone mentioned University of Sedona, they allow multiple degrees also with high overlap. I guess that once you are not restricted, you can make your programs appealing so people keep buying your product.
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    This reminds me of how some people get the MBA at WGU and then get the MSML by using the overlap and finishing the small handful of classes left. But even with that being available, most people still don't do it. Is this different with Propio degrees? Maybe, I'm not disputing it, but I also don't see it as a real problem except for the degree holder who has the nerve to list a ton of master's degrees.

    I've found this possibility to be the nature of the beast with independent study and competency-based programs that have programs sharing common classes. The programs provide a ton of freedom, but also provide a stage for students to overuse it and commit career suicide if they can't discipline themselves in their listings.
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I get that part, but we're going into a number of different directions and it's overcomplicating something that we have word on already. Of course, what an evaluator says is not the end-all-be-all but so far we have enough word on it that some of the comparisons being made are late in timing.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    With the internet and difference of education systems things become very complex. In Canada, the University term is regulated so it is assumed that if you have a University degree, this means a 3 to 4 years programs for a PhD or 2 years for a Masters. When someone comes with a University of Sedona PhD degree, the perception is a 4 to 5 years degree with a dissertation defended by a panel of experts and not a one year degree with a 15000 words dissertation.

    We are also getting used to the idea of people getting degrees outside Canada, getting degrees from the UK is very popular now as MSc are one year and PhDs dissertation based only. It is more time effective getting an MBA from a top UK University than a local MBA from a low tier Canadian University.

    ENEB opens that door to a different game player with low cost education from a European country that has a flexible education system that allows this type of degrees that are not available in Canada.

    I know some people in Canada doing degrees from Aspen or other low cost American schools just to use the title MBA. I wonder what will happen after the 200 USD becomes popular with other American schools that once were considered attractive.

    Times of change.
  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Many schools in the U.S. could cut tuition costs quite a bit and still make a ton of money, but I have doubts that any of them can do it for much lower than some of the independent study (how many of those even exist anymore?) and CBE programs are already doing it unless they do it with significantly higher volumes and that's going to mean either a lot more part-time/per course hires, or outsourced graders, or more exam-based degree programs. That outsourcing part may become more normal in the U.S. if CBE programs continue to grow in numbers, but at the moment that word isn't fully embraced even though we know there are schools doing it as we speak.
  16. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I agree. It is comparing apples and oranges or different fruits in general. Funny thing is, it would be appropriate for us to say that no degree from any college is created equal to any other degree. They all have value and a degree that cost over $100,000 can have about as many limitations as a $200 degree. There will never be a one size fits all. The whole idea of ENEB is interesting. I can't praise it or criticize it universally because I've considered doing one of their programs for personal development. It's a degree that meets somewhere in the middle of the spectrum without a consensus that says to accept or reject it.

    Also, putting this in the category with University of Sedona was not my intention to criticize but limit its utilization. I have been thinking about attending that school for 7 years now.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
    LearningAddict likes this.
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think that a Masters from UoS might be equivalent to the ENEB degree in terms of work and status. The main criticism of UoS is not their masters qualifications but their PhDs. Many people use them to give an impression of being qualified Psychologists and practice unregulated psychology like professional coach, life coach, leadership, etc. Their qualifications use deceptive titles such as Metaphysical Psychology, Theocentric Psychology, etc. All this to target people that want to practice in private practice and need a PhD to compete with degreed PhDs. Just check psychology today and see how many people practice non regulated psychology with these degrees.
  18. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Active Member

    Since I have a spreadsheet, I will share my findings, just as confirmation of certain things said above.

    I am doing the MBA + MB in International Trade.
    MBA is 13 courses. 4 more courses gets me the MA International Trade. Knocking those out also satisfies the requirements for Management & Team Management, no addt'l courses needed.
    Included in the package is a Diploma (Post-graduate?) in Coaching, NLP, & Team Leadership. I believe I will have to complete 1 additional course for that (HR management).
    Also included is a Certificate in Business Spanish, which is a small project.

    +3 = Digital Marketing & E-commerce. At this point requirements have been met for a Commerce Management & Marketing degree. I have no interest in that one.
    +4 = Big Data & Business Intelligence. That is likely where i will stop. 26 courses equals 4 masters (+2 more if I just pay the fees I guess), a diploma, and a certificate.

    IF I were to continue from there I could do:
    +4 = Project Management. +3 = HRM. +2 = Business & Corporate Communication. +3 = Hotel Management & Tourism. +3 = Supply Chain Management.

    40 courses = 11 masters o_O
  19. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    If this was an accredited and traditional university, this would come out to only 4 (maybe 5) earned Masters degrees. That would still be too many!
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    ENEB has more Spanish Masters than English Masters, the same course work would give you at least two more masters (Masters in Coaching and Masters in Innovation). So maybe you can beat the record here and end with 13 to 15 masters degrees in few years. Even the good old Rich Douglas would look bad with his two PhDs.

Share This Page