Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

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  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The first thing people will think in Germany is that you purchased the degree even if you earned. I have read articles of people in Germany being nailed because they did a PhD distance from Australia DL.

    I would only follow a PhD from these schools if there was a value for me and I wouldnt be flashing my PhD everywhere as you would be target of mockery and attacks, unless you were born in CR, Nicaragua or Mexico, it would look like you are purchasing these credentials. People get very angry when you use a PhD title in your CV with a DL degree when they went to a local school and spent 5 years full time doing it.

    I read few articles of African officials and professors being targeted because their PhDs from CR, Mexico, etc.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If you're going to jail, it's not because you called yourself "doctor" when you hadn't earned a doctorate, it's because of something major, like you pretended to be a surgeon and someone died. In the last ten years, I haven't even heard of anyone being fined from ODA-style enforcement. Maybe there are a bunch of cases out there I'm not aware of, but unless so it seems pretty harmless now.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I believe this, but Germany's a special case. They don't even recognize doctorates in business administration from regionally accredited U.S. schools that don't have AACSB, for example.
     
    Dustin likes this.
  4. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Well of course not, which is why I said "depending on what you were frauding and the extent to which you did it." I'm referring to licensed professions where laws and regulations govern what you can and can't do because I believe that's what LA was primarily referring to.

    It doesn't have to be that major:

    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2019/08/08/fake-doctor

    That happened in California. Then there is this one from Florida:

    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-west-palm-fake-doctor-20160216-story.html
     
  5. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    I think you refer to this case when you say "people in Germany (acutally it happened in Switzerland) being nailed because they did a PhD distance from Australia DL"

    https://www.medinside.ch/de/post/hirslanden-daniel-liedtke-doktortitel-dba-dr-berufsdoktorat

    This guy spend 63000 Franken (wow!) for a "DBA" from an reputable Australian school however their DBA course is not classified as a scientific doctorate in Australia.
    So it´s not a doctorate in Australia and because of that you can´t use the title as Dr. XY in Switzerland / Germany neither.
     
  6. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    The real question, then, is how one could arrange such a validation agreement with a school that would issue both the degree and transcripts?

    We've got plenty of these programs rolling around, but only a few (Texila, ENEB, some of the validation agreements with UCAM or USW) actually come off as reputable. Might be fun to make a new program using a setup like LSIB does (professional certificates which can be rolled into Bachelor's and Master's programs with a top-up plus maybe offering the DBA or a PhD in some topic).
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    DBAs are Doctorates and entitled to use the Dr. term. To me this is just snobbery, you cannot call your self Dr. because your Doctorate is not scientific enough? Very biased opinion with no foundation other than the person completed an off campus program.

    In any case, in 10 years from now people doing degrees face to face will be seen odd and the norm will be online. With the pandemic, all the courses are online, I can see the same snobs saying "Did you finish your PhD during the pandemic? It is not scientific enough". Luckily, these people are the old folks in majority that are on their way out.
     
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is quite normal in Europe, the problem is not so much to give the ECTS certificate but to sell it. Most European degrees are tuition free or low fees so these programs might be cheap for US standards but expensive for European standards. The US has a huge competition, for you to sell your certificates a considerable amount of money has to be invested in marketing. Coursera and EdX already have non credit low cost certificates with good name universities so a 8 ECTS credit certificate from Isabel 1 might not be worth so much as you think. ECTS credits have some value in Europe but in the US or Canada people have no clue as most of these credits cannot be transferred anywhere, only people that know Excelsior, Edison, etc know how to do it but this is a minority. I tried as a business about 20 years ago to sell UK qualifications in Canada that were worth ECTS credits and I was unable to sell not even one in few years, most people didn't care about them as they were not known in the local market and they were not degrees but ECTS diplomas.
    ENEB is using the label MBA that has market penetration and is able to get a super low price probably because they sell thousands of diplomas but we couldnt negotiate such a low price with Isabel or similar unless you had volume.
     
  9. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    I've got a lot of people who actually want something like this in my list of acquaintances, provided it's inexpensive enough, between the US and Australia. If I had the framework and the agreement, I'd make some decent money (enough to pay my way through the last academic degree I want without taking student loans, of course including some savings already)

    I just got through fixing a major fire for a client of mine, maybe I can actually see what this requires now :cool:
     
  10. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That and others. I could've been a little more clear. For licensed roles I guess it goes without saying, but it's always been my understanding that you have to actually perform an action (or direct someone to perform an action) protected by regulations in order to get into the kind of trouble where you're cuffed and jailed, like the guys you linked to.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Australian schools have a lot of deals with Asian private institutes already for their delivery of their programs. Just contact Charles Sturt, USQ or Deakin just to mention a few. Most of these schools are willing to make deals but you would need to have a strong financial situation and a running institute in the US with some graduates. They normally also ask for PhD or at Masters graduates to deliver their qualifications.

    ENEB is not doing anything new but they are doing it at a very low cost. The Australian schools normally give you half and half, you get to teach half of the program and but they need to teach the other half so they can make some money.

    Education is business, it doesn't matter if it is Australia, Spain, Canada,UK, Mexico, Nicaragua etc. The difference among countries is really money. Azteca might ask you to have an institute and investment of 20K while an Australian school probably would expect at least a million dollar corporation. Them you have the middle man like some of the small institutes in the UK like the association of international accountants that make deals with universities and then they make deals with small schools around the world. So. you could just approach the Association of international accountants and just deliver their qualifications in the US, they count for 3/4 of a Masters degree. I completed a Master's by using their qualifications. Like this one, there are plenty in the UK.

    It is all about perception. People here talk highly about UK, Australian, US and European qualifications but in reality many institutions just outsource their teaching to Indian, Asia and other countries to make a profit and just print the diploma. However, if a Nicaraguan or Mexican School does the same thing in Africa or other place that cannot afford to pay UK or US qualifications, then the schools are evil and substandard etc. We live in a world of power and money, it is all about perception.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  12. asianphd

    asianphd Member

  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

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  14. asianphd

    asianphd Member

    I asked ENEB before and they said the designation is MBA and MA for any others.
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Very interesting stuff you're posting here.

    For the MBA that makes sense because that's the normal way to do it practically everywhere in the world. What I don't quite get is how the person who replied arrived at the "MA" conclusion when they're not listed that way on the actual diplomas. It's common in Spain and some other places to not use "Science" or "Arts" designations for degrees. But more importantly, since the diplomas from the schools we're discussing aren't written with those designations, I would avoid using them and stick to what is on the diploma.
     
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  16. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    To be sure, I meant the designations of "Science" or "Arts". The MBA being written as "Master in/of Business Administration" is common and perfectly fine.
     
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  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    He is listed as a graduate student not an instructor. His CV is starting to look a bit ridiculous with 4 masters degrees. This is the risk of taking these programs, as they are not very intensive and cheap, one can end with 4 to 10 masters degrees and at some point your CV starts to cause the opposite effect. This student has degrees in Big Data, business administration, Literature and Spanish. What kind of job is he looking for? As ENEB allows you to recycle your courses with new masters, he can add two to three classes and then add another 2 masters degrees in his CV, maybe in HR and and a second one in E-commerce. At some point your CV starts looking non credible.

    I have seen CVs in linked in with this type of degrees with more than five masters degrees from these schools. Think about it, 5 masters degrees are only about 1000 bucks and maybe you take one and the other 4 are just a recycle of the same with maybe extra 5 classes.
     
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  18. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    He's earning his PhD in Romance Languages and Literatures. His MA being in Spanish and Comparative Literature make sense as preparation for a PhD focusing on that language. The Big Data and BI Masters feels out of place in the story that his CV is telling (at least to me). He writes that he's interested in the impact of technology on obsolescence and digital humanities.

    A little off topic: I'm familiar with the ENEB MBA being assessed mostly through papers and the learning mostly being written materials but I'm curious if anyone else has taken the Big Data/Business Intelligence degree, how is it evaluated? Since those are very technical subjects, I wonder if people are actually learning relevant things or not.
     
    asianphd likes this.
  19. asianphd

    asianphd Member

    He also has PgDip and he lists it under courses & diplomas. I wonder why he doesn't put it under its category too as he already has 2 master's degrees from regular school.
     
  20. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    True enough. Switching gears from starting a school, do you know of any graduate programs or high-value certificates (in English) offhand that are offered through partnerships with good cost-saving potential? I've done some digging and found a few, mainly MBAs.

    That's what I don't even understand, his CV has no real point or purpose. I could maybe see the Business & Corp Comm degree having some value for him, or just the MBA (if he wants to leave academia, which he likely doesn't want to do with his degrees in literature and Spanish), but why Big Data?
     

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