Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Active Member

    Johann766 was saying that the success of ENEB proves there is a market. Now, I don't know to what extent the program has been successful. What I am saying is I believe that what success it may have had thus far has very little to do with the potential for favorable foreign credential evaluations, or the ability to transfer credits into other programs. Again, I think it's great that folks are looking for hacks.

    With just a very superficial look, it seems to me there is a lot of upside to setting up a program like ENEB has done, to people looking for bachelor degrees. Heck, I'd be all over it.
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In Spain you cannot grant propio PhDs because these are only official. The trick here is that in the Spanish system, it is the bachelors degree that gives you the right to practice a profession not the Masters. I could have a Masters in Psychology but this does not give me the right to practice as a I require a Bachelors degree in Psychology.
    A propio PhD is really not very useful in Spain because they are only used in Government and University positions where propio degrees are not useful.

    As for companies in the US that offer PhD propio degrees, it is already done mainly through schools in Latin America with schools like San Juan de la Cruz in CR, Azteca in Mexico and North Central Nicaragua. If you search, there are few schools that already do this like the University of America that operates with a high school license legally but their degrees are validated by some schools in Latin America. So technically I can open high school just to operate legally, I call it a University that is non regulated term in some states and then make a deal with San Juan de la Cruz or NCU for dual degree granting.

    In Cost Rica, legally, any University can grant qualifications that are not regulated inside the country such as a PhD as long as these qualifications are not offered to CR citizens but done through an international partner. Basically, the government says that they don't care if you grant PhDs as long as you dont offer these degrees to Costa Ricans. This is why you have several schools in CR doing this.

    In Nicaragua, the PhD is not highly regulated. Private Universities are allowed to grant any degree they want as there in no current regulation for this. So technically any Nicaraguan private University can grant PhDs.

    In Mexico, it is a bit like in Spain, the right to practice comes from the Bachelors mainly. Any private school can offer a PhD as long as it states that these degrees are unaccredited. Azteca has the right to print a PhD but this degree has no legal value in Mexico.

    In few words, US companies like the University of America profit from the fact that in the US, the University are accredited not programs like in Latin America. So it San Juan de la Cruz grants a PhD legally in CR, the US system recognizes this degree because it is granted by an Official school but the same PhD is not recognized in CR. This is the reason why so many companies do this.

    If you go around, there are many companies like University of American that already profit from this and offers degrees from Latin America.

    Isabel 1 University is an online university according to its Wikipedia profile ( It has legal rights to offer degrees but they have found that it is cheaper to print diplomas than actually offer them.

    It is a new business model, in Spain or CR doesn't cost you a fortune to open a University online. Then use the name to make deal with business partners so they offer the degree and you only print the diploma. It is also highly likely that University of San Juan de la cruz has no campus and just operates online in CR, most likely they dont offer degrees themselves but all are offered through business partners and they just print diplomas.

    Welcome to the new world of global education.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Spoony's right, the large print may say "Land of the Free", but there's an awful lot of fine print, and this is an example. A number of states attempt to regulate this, most notably Oregon, with their Office of Degree Authorization. They used to be quite zealous when Alan Contreras was in charge (they got sued a few times and had to back down, IIRC) but he moved on to other pursuits a decade ago.
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Where are you getting that? Just because they have propio relationships with other teaching institutions doesn't mean they don't also offer programs in house.
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying he's wrong. My question is still, what can they do? Or maybe the better question is, what have they done? I've only been aware of legal issues with people using the title to fool others into thinking they were Doctors of Medicine or some other profession where the title implied a license to practice.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I actually agree with all of that. My point was, it should be expected that people with greater knowledge of the system would attempt to maximize the potential of the program whereas people with less knowledge wouldn't.
    asianphd and SpoonyNix like this.
  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Might you be referring to this disaster of a site?
    Dustin likes this.
  8. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Active Member

    And I ALL FOR IT ;)
    LearningAddict likes this.
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I am sure they do but check the difference in prices. Many private centers offer degree from Isabel 1 at lower prices than the prices they have own their own website. They do have very good prices for BS and MS degrees but partners seem to offer very low prices like ENEB.
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This shows how for a low budget you can set up a school. An amateur website, some fees to pay for a high school license and you are in business.

    Another with a better web site below:

    As some people pointed out here, it is way cheaper for me to open a University in Nicaragua and then get RA status through a foreign credential evaluator. If the prospect student in the US just needs a report to get a pay increase as an adjunct or get a promotion, it makes more sense to pay 6K for a PhD that gives access to RA equivalent report than 60K for an RA degree.

    If anyone does research, maybe some of these operations use the same faculty that teach at Walden, NCU, etc to teach at these schools so technically is the same education just rebranded for cost purposes.
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Actually, it looks like the University is using all the tricks discussed here. They have two overseas universities, one in Colombia and one in Curacao.

    .The University of America Curacao

    Willemstad, Curacao, Kingdom of Netherlands

    All our internationally accredited and recognized degree programs are offered from our UoA Curacao Online Campus. Here, all our degree programs are available and offered.
    The University of America also known as University Foundation of America / Fundacion Universidad de America (FUA) Bogota, DC. and is accredited by the Ministerio de Educacion Nacional (CO). Codigo # 1715 . Certifica : RL-01955-2008 And Listed in the International Association of Universities` Worldwide Database of Higher Education Institutions, Systems & Credentials, as:

    University Foundation of America Colombia Fundacion Universidad de America (FUA

    They also grant religious based degrees in the US.

    California campus: houses the UA Diploma programs, UA Divinity School Programs and The UA High School Dploma Programs only.

    So the idea is quite clever, I purchase a couple of overseas operations so they can grant degrees to my American students so they can get an RA equivalent Report. I grant a local diploma through my religious school in Califonia so I can grant a double degree program. One legal but limited value and the second one from my schools in LAtin America so the student can get his RA equivalent report. There is the possibility that they dont even own the Latin operations but just pay a free per diploma printed so this makes them low cost investment and all profit.

    This is way cheaper than accrediting University of America in California that requires faculty with RA PhDs, money in the bank, infrastructure, etc.

    Models like the above seem to start emerging.
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That was my conclusion. It would be shakier since FCEs can change course at some point like WES did with UCN and Azteca, but it's definitely a way less expensive move than setting up shop here in the U.S. and trying to gain institutional accreditation through a regional accreditor.
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I see what they're doing there. But the site is so awful and it's been like that for so many years now, it just makes you question what their educational quality is like.

    EDIT: I'm referring to this one, maybe they should just take that mess offline and go with their newer ones entirely.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Education is business, many people spend a considerable amount of their money on education. It is not profitable to make from you 1 or 2K when I can make 100K. I always believed that if someone wants to learn, all you need is a good set of materials and just a tutor to guide you.

    The new models just show that it is possible to learn for cheap and this is a threat to the US system that makes millions of dollars from the degree industry. There are many people in youtube that are questioning this model and showing ways to get education for free by using internet or following free online training that is recognized.
    asianphd likes this.
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Maybe not that great but at the end is the customer that decides.

    There is a middle point, University of American might be one extreme but ENEB might be in the middle. I don't know University of America but ENEB is good value for the money spent there.
    LearningAddict likes this.
  16. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    I strongly doubt that the University of America is accredited by the Curacao authorities.
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    They are not in the list, they most likely are lying about it. Not a good sign
  18. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    You're perfectly right, there is of course UCN and Uni Azteca (as well AS San Juan de la Cruz). I think a doctorate in the UCN/Azteca european program costa around 6000 Euros. Not expensive but it is still too much in order to just try whether you like the course of studies.

    Also from my German perspective a Spanish (or maybe east european) degree of course has a higher acceptance in Germany than exotic degrees from Latin America. I don't think many people in Germany even know the concept of propio degrees so they would propably just consider them to be "normal" degrees.

    That's why I wonder why eneb is not offering bachelor's and PhD's too and I think there would be a market for it.

    It is probably not possible for me as an individual person -without any personal connection to the educational sector- to start such a thing. Otherwise I guess I would try
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The latin degree has some utility. For example people making a living as adjunct, many adjunct positions require a PhD and pay very low so a PhD from San Juan de la Cruz might be OK to teach at a community College in California for a 2K a gig course.

    There are some Spanish schools that offer propio PhDs like the Universidad de los Pueblos de Europa but the University is not accredited by the Spanish Government.
    The PhD in spain is mainly for professors and government employees, it would be very controversial for Universities to offer propio PhDs unless they do it like in Costa Rica where it is not legal to offer it to local citizens but legal to offer it to foreign students.

    I agree that a Spanish degree is a step up from a Latin degree due to credibility of European institutions.
  20. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    That's a hard question to answer because each state approaches things differently. But in places where it's a violation, you're looking at fines and/or jail time depending on what you were frauding and the extent to which you did it.


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