Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. innen_oda

    innen_oda Active Member

    Genau! Danish 'kend' is analogous to the German 'kennt'. If you know German, learning written Danish is fairly easy to pick up. Understanding spoken Dansk . . . well, kamelåså.
    Johann likes this.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I could probably learn Danish, if I worked at it, I guess. 1000 years ago, Danes occupied and ran a good part of England, where I'm from. They got the land as a reward (bribe) for keeping other Scandinavians (Vikings) away from English shores. Two Danish kings, in fact, ran the whole country in their time - Cnut (Knut aka Canute) and Sven Forkbeard, who I think, was Canute's father. After that, the Danes - and the Anglo-Saxons - soon lost their country to the Normans. A lot of English place names today are still Danish in origin; e.g. anything ending in -by (Appleby etc) and anything ending in 'thorp(e) e.g. Scunthorpe. "Thorpe" is old Danish, like "Dorf" in German - meaning "Village."
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  3. innen_oda

    innen_oda Active Member

    On the contrary, a degree should open up opportunities for you, not close them off. If someone wants to stay in one country their entire life, their prerogative. Not being able to move abroad because your dodgy degree isn't recognised by employers as being legit? I'll spend my time on a proper degree, thanks.

    There best thing we have to go on is precedent. Proper degrees (for want of a better word) from developed countries have a precedent of being recognised abroad, despite a lack of guarantee. Groupon degrees . . . not so much. They have neither guarantee nor precedent.

    I would say that really, this talk of evaluations is a red herring. In my former life as a hiring manager, I rarely asked for evaluations (only if the position legally required it). But if I didn't recognise the uni name, you can bet I did a quick Google before making final hiring decisions. I've already spent 10-20 hours on boring interviews and 200 CVs, a 5 minute Google is nothing. If googling the name of your uni brings up a link to a coupon website and multiple forums asking 'is this degree legit?' . . . bad news, my friends. You better be AMAZING to overcome that stigma - in which case you didn't need the degree in the first place.

    Get a propio degree for personal knowledge, sure (although this can be done for free from much better sources). But if you imagine this is going to give you a leg up in the professional field, where you wouldn't have had that leg up otherwise . . . you'd be better off donating that $600 to a scholarship fund. At least then someone can benefit.
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  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    So I get the idea that you want a degree to have as much utility as it can give you, and I have no disagreement with that desire. I'm just looking at it this way because I think we have to consider who and what we're discussing here: the majority of degree holders living in the U.S. are not going to be uprooting their lives and moving to Europe, most will never even travel there, so rather than overly examine that extreme, it's more reasonable to look at this in the context of what the average degree-holding American is actually going to do with the degree: use it here in the United States.

    Now, my issue with calling it a "Groupon degree" is that it comes across as an attempt at a needless derogatory shot. It's not a Groupon degree, Groupon doesn't have a school and it doesn't issue degrees any more than it gives massages, makes burgers, pizza, and chicken wings, or power washes siding. ENEB is simply a school using Groupon to promote it.

    You said: "There best thing we have to go on is precedent. Proper degrees (for want of a better word) from developed countries have a precedent of being recognised abroad, despite a lack of guarantee. Groupon degrees . . . not so much. They have neither guarantee nor precedent."

    Ahhh, precedent, perhaps, but not a guarantee. There is certainly some history of propio degrees being accepted inside and outside Spain, but just the same as any degree from anywhere on earth, there is no guarantee.

    Here in the United States, each state has its own standards. Where one state may accept your degree for licensure, another may not for one or more reasons. So knowing that, I don't think it's reasonable to expect any foreign degree to suddenly have some sort of far-reaching automatic utility internationally when degrees right here in America don't always have that based on some circumstances, not even from state to state.

    Lastly, about the "leg up" comment, this is where we stop seeing the forest for the trees. If we took the popular thoughts of most degree board members and applied them to the real world, every NA school would probably not exist, and at the very least no NA grad would ever get a decent job, and all holders of fake degrees, degrees from fake schools, people lying about their degrees, and people with no degree at all, would be living in the gutter, but none of that is the definitive reality. There are countless people gainfully employed and moving up with a fake degree or several on their resumes. We've seen some even become CEOs. There are people with unaccredited degrees. People with NA degrees. People lying about their degrees. People with no degree at all, and many of those people are doing fine, many better than fine. So what are we saying? Because this school has a Groupon promotion that's low-cost, anyone who gets this degree is finished? That's going too far. It's just a promotion. At the moment, WGU promotes a scholarship/discount in light of COVID that would bring the cost down to roughly $400 or so for a Masters if one is dedicated enough to spend the time to finish in one of the month-or-less record times. Should we start calling WGU degrees COVID degrees? C'mon, lol.

    With all of those examples being true, I think it's very possible for someone with a degree from this school to have some opportunities, and a legitimate degree--which this actually happens to be, much to the chagrin of some--can still be an advantage over the many people who don't have one from anywhere. Obviously, a person with a degree from a more well-established school with a better reputation will top an ENEB-Isabel grad if all other things are equal, but to slant this as if a degree from this arrangement will have zero utility is taking things too far. I think it's fair to state its utility shortcomings and we should absolutely do that, but we don't want to overstate that just because we may not approve of the arrangement/method/promotion/price, etc.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  5. innen_oda

    innen_oda Active Member

    This is an excellent point, because WGU degrees are not generally accepted in Germany, and is the reason why I've avoided them to date. NA degrees are seen as what would best be described as begrudging acceptance and have limited transferability - hence why numerous posts on this board and the sister board are from people looking to avoid NA degrees. I avoid those for similar reasons.

    There are indeed people who have gotten ahead with falsified qualifications and disingenuous motives. This is a fact of life, but hardly cause to follow down the same path.
    People take risks, of course - sometimes quite bad ones. You will evaluate your own chances based on the information available. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a discussion board where people could discuss degrees in full and honest truth - which might include laying bare marketing tactics? Maybe they could call it 'Degree Info'.

    In general, I would offer two pieces of advice:
    1. My comments are generally nuanced and prefaced with qualifications. You would do well to notice this, and avoid making inferences of my views based on your own black-and-white thinking.
    2. Focussing solely on financial outgoings is a poor idea. Time is your most valuable asset, and is the one thing you can't 'make more of' later on. Whether a degree costs $400 or $40 000 matters not (so much) if it's time well-spent. And, equally, time badly spent. Choose wisely.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I looked it up. Best joke of the day! Thanks! :)
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    May I squeeze in something else?

    A degree is a proxy. It speaks on your behalf. But if it leaves an impression in someone's mind that isn't true, it could explode--as Bear would say--like a time bomb in your resume. And if you think the literal truth can protect you from someone's misunderstanding of the actual situation, then you're mistaken. Apply that any way you wish.
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    My comments are based purely on what you've written because that's all I can go by, and I don't think I've made any far-out assumptions or misinterpretations of your position, as I take it you would've corrected me on that by now.

    What I just previously posted isn't "black and white thinking" at all, because then I wouldn't have acknowledged utility issues (something that has many facets), so let's categorize each other's positions fairly. You should also be well aware that many of us here have experience and more qualifications than the average person, so these discussions are tackled from a number of different angles and there probably isn't one we haven't seen by now, including the classic outright dismissal.

    It's well understood that there are going to be utility issues with a propio degree, no one is disputing that, it's factual, you yourself just mentioned a U.S. RA degree (WGU) having an issue in Germany. So there are going to be issues with many types of degrees from many different countries and that too is factual, so if we put this in a way where a degree from the ENEB arrangement is alone in this regard then we're not giving people the full picture.

    "WGU degrees are not generally accepted in Germany, and is the reason why I've avoided them to date."

    Totally fair, but you're mentioning issues that have little or no bearing on the average American, the average American who will never seek a job in Germany or live in Germany. If you live in Germany or you're seeking a job there, it makes perfect sense for it to matter to you, but what does that mean for the few hundred million in the United States that won't ever do that? See, that's my point. I can pick countries and mention where a degree from somewhere isn't accepted somewhere else, but how does that help an American looking to get a degree to get ahead in America? It doesn't. It's a rare circumstance that doesn't align with the average we're discussing.

    Anyone reading what you've posted would certainly come away with the impression that you're against this arrangement. I have no issue with that, you have every right to be against it. But you're calling them "Groupon degrees" and pretty much taking the position that they will have no (or almost no) utility and that's where things go awry, those are not fair categorizations or conclusions, unless somehow your words are meaning something other than how they read? So, I'm sorry if me simply addressing that isn't pleasant, but it's definitely fair.
  9. Greg Sharrigone

    Greg Sharrigone New Member

    The "Infamous" (according to you) Ecole supérieure Robert de Sorbon® is now 16 years old, well and alive. It's on line VAE (Validation des Acquis de l'Expérience) suits the Coronavirus situation. Seven years ago, French authorities granted the trademark école supérieure Robert de Sorbon®. CQFD / QED "Quid Erat Demonstrandum"...
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    NIL erat demonstrandum. Schola non probata est. :p
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sis felix, Greg. Imperium scholam claudere non potest. :)
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    For those in a post-Roman world, my two posts above translate as:

    NOTHING was to be demonstrated. The school is not approved.
    You're lucky, Greg. The Government cannot close your school.

    (That last is because of a legal loophole.)
  13. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I agree.... I would not get an ENEB degree to meet job requirements. A person may be better off doing MOOC courses from Coursera, Udemy, etc to fill in some gaps. At the same time, a program from ENEB could help not only fill in some gaps of knowledge not covered in a person's already earned Masters degree but also be used to teach business subjects at the college level provided a foreign evaluation gives the credential from ENEB / Universidad Isabel I graduate level results. The ENEB program can also be used for bridge coursework for an MBA from an RA school here in the US or global equivalent to prevent you from having to take additional courses as prerequisites since ECE has viewed their programs equivalent to 4th year study of a Bachelors anyway.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  14. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    I would say that as an entry level credential in and of itself it may not be helpful. Because of its official recognition in Spain, I would say it could enhance someone's overall qualifications. I would take it FAR more seriously than Udemy (Udemy not even in the same league). The one link that started this said it could be considered a graduate level diploma and I would take to look at it that way. It is building upon a foundation and to me of more value than an add on unaccredited US business degree.
  15. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    That's true. It's definitely a gray area obtaining a proprio degree but any recognition of it here in the US or anywhere in the world is good nonetheless and is more than an MOOC. I would recommend it to someone who doesn't need a Masters degree necessarily but wants to compete with other Bachelor degree holders in the same way of recommending PhDs from Azteca University, Universidad Central Nicuarga, and other foreign universities at a low cost for those who want to compete with Masters degree holders but not other PhD holders.
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Depends of the field, employer, and particular situation. There are times when the ENEB degree may satisfy "a degree in a field" requirement in a way a MOOC would not, or it can potentially provide evaluated credits for transfer. On the other hand, Coursera MOOCs backed by big industry names will lead to less questions and likely will have more up-to-date content (especially in a technical field). I looked at their Data Analytics degree for myself as a potential next project, and realized that one of several Coursera certs will provide better mileage. I do not strictly need either one as a credential, and Coursera appears to be better in content and instructional design.

    But I do have a similar general feeling about the credentials' worth. These are legit programs, and should not be discussed as if they are from a degree mill. OTOH, it is unrealistic to expect them to fare as well as a US accredited degree. For the price, I feel they are generally OK - IF the opportunity cost is not too great.
  17. kabumpatapum

    kabumpatapum New Member

    About the WGU acceptance in Germany. If you check where the problem is you find that is not the accreditation but that they accept credits for life experience.

    Voluntary COMMITMENTCautiousness is required, as this institution offers on-line study programs with credit for life experience.

    Recognition is therefore only possible in individual cases with precise documentation, and frequent rejection is to be expected."

    I do not know in which cases they will accept the title. My guess is if you have all your credits as studying in class, no life experience credits, you should have a chance to have it recognized.
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  18. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't matter with a Masters because WGU doesn't accept transfer credit or any other kinds of credit for their Masters programs.
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  19. Greg Sharrigone

    Greg Sharrigone New Member

    "Nemo auditur propriam turpitudinem allegans"
  20. Greg Sharrigone

    Greg Sharrigone New Member

    Tu es nimis Victus

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