Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.
Exactly. The term "titulo propio" is often translated as "own title" degree in English. I think you were explaining it very well -and using it correctly. As a lawyer should.
It refers to degrees taught by the university - in addition to those degrees that the governing authorities have recognized. The authorities say, in effect, "here are the degrees you may teach which we give full recognition. You are allowed to teach other degrees if you wish. They will be OK but without full recognition, unless you apply for it,"
You'll see this in Mexican schools. The reconocido de validez is numbered, for each degree. Those without the reconocido, but from a properly authorized university are propio or "own title" degrees.
...said the man in the back of the squad car.
Seriously, did anybody (including me) say it was? Requiring explanations doesn't always mean fraud. It just means enduring chronic doubt and suspicion -and having to explain, explain, explain. And possibly being embarrassed, when somebody talks to you in a language they thought you understood because you said (or they read) you had a Spanish degree. More explanations....
Yes. I remember our late friend Abner saying he'd learned to speak Valenciano as a child. I looked it up because I had no knowledge of it as a separate language. Your description is exactly like the info I found. Difficult to unite communities on all things - especially heritage things like language. I should know - I live in Canada. The theme persists, however minor the differences, it appears.
We've already covered how this can be explained positively with one line and zero embarrassment.
Zero embarrassment if they ask you in English. If they ask in rapid-fire Spanish (or whatever language your degree might indicate) and you can't respond and have to explain - I think that would be embarrassing. Anyway, explaining positively and without embarrassment - is still explaining. I don't like explaining - so not particularly fond of degrees that require it. That wouldn't stop me from earning a foreign degree if:
(1) I was conversant with the language of the country in which it was earned.
(2) The degree was "the one" - and that country was the mother source. E.G. A degree in French History (or literature, etc.) in France.
(3) The degree was fully recognized here (without explanation) and was available with interesting options and a good value. It could be from anywhere.
Many foreign universities in non-English-speaking nations teach in English. But yes, explanation-land is a place to be avoided.
The number of times I've been asked, regarding Leicester, "how's your English?", I could just bust....
(Posted elsewhere, but applicable here, too.)
When someone takes a degree from one of these places and, in a foreign credential evaluation, receives an equivalence to a US degree, then I'll pay attention. That goes for Swiss Cantons, Propio-whatever, rented degree-granting authorities, and (gasp) the Kingdom of Hawai'i.
(1) Is a must. May include (2) or (3) (re: above)
But Rich -- we'll all be long-dead by then!!
Well, if my understanding is correct, the only thing I can think of like the titulo propio in the United States would be the non-Bar J.D. These degrees can be valid as degrees but the State doesn't accept them for licensing. A sterling example of the "degree with an explanation".
Speaking of languages and Canada (I know we weren't but bear with me) I marvel that Canada functions as well as she does despite having people speaking English in Ontario but speaking English(?) in Newfoundland!
Easy. We have a Province with many bilingual French-Canadians in the middle who interpret for both sides. All th' way from Dildo* t' Joe Batt's Arm*. Aye. Wunnerful t'hear them Bay B'ys an' Townies t'gether. Wunnerful....
* Don't anyone get on my case. Dildo and Joe Batt's Arm are real places in Newfoundland.
You mentioned it in the same post, same paragraph, and one could easily get the impression that your view on it is at least similar and that you may have been making a veiled comparison (maybe even unintentionally), otherwise why even bring up a fraudulent situation when it doesn't apply to the situation being discussed?
U.S. equivalence shouldn't be the gold standard to such an extent that everything outside of it should be ignored, and I say that for a number of reasons, like the fact that not every evaluator will necessarily even turn out the same result, or because some U.S. degrees aren't even universally accepted in the U.S. itself or in Canada, never mind other countries outside North America.
Why? Because someone else (you) mentioned fraudulent degrees - and that these propio degrees aren't (to which I agree.) I'm surprised I have to mention this - I thought it was pretty plain - but I consider these non-fraudulent degrees problematic, to a degree. Fraudulent degrees are a problem (to which you agreed) and these propios, while not fraudulent in and of themselves, add to one aspect of the damage done by holders of fraudulent degrees. Taken at face value (which they too often are, it seems, from the "all hiring managers are idiots" school) these degrees are another expedient, super-cheap path to a pay raise that may not be related to productivity or on-the-job skill.
Some individuals can (and will) use these degrees as a 100% legal license to steal from their employers - and ultimately, from us.. There. I've wasted ten minutes re-stating my case. End of.
WE at DI don't ignore it - but employers do - and some of them (e.g. Government) are required to do so. No US equivalency - no job 4U.
I think Rich's point is - if it doesn't work for employment (or further school) in the US - what good is it to someone who lives there?
Can't argue with that. Except for this. If you want any degree - from anywhere, for reasons other than a job or further ed. at the RA school down the road (or to victimize or defraud someone in an assumed professional capacity) - I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with people who use degrees not acceptable in their own country for nefarious purposes - or simply money-grubbing ones to get fat from the public purse.
Maybe some employers do; it won't surprise you that I never worked in the public sector. But no American private sector employer I ever had bothered with transcripts or that sort of thing. They just saw degrees on my resume and said, "Oh, okay." Would that have been different had one of them been foreign? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it.
The degrees on your resume were from known American schools, Steve. Easy recognition. If they're going to check ANYTHING - they check the unknown. If they don't check ANYTHING - well, shame on them...
Separate names with a comma.