Law Suit of Concerns

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Erma, Feb 7, 2001.

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  1. Erma

    Erma New Member

    After went back to Dr. Steve Levicoff's web site, I realize that I think I know why (one reason) MIGS pursues this law suit.
    * Over the past when Dr. Levicoff published "Name It,Frame It", he quoted that he received about "... 50 law suit threats." Apparently, Dr. Levicoff has many enemies, perhaps, more than 50 persons. Most of them are from non-accredited school (or degree mill). My speculation is that (non-accredited schools) they sent their supports to MIGS in both financial and legal counsel . I think that is why MIGS is still pursuing perhaps to teach Dr. Levicoff a lesson as well as those that oppose to non-accredited school or degree mill. Hummm?
    Either ways, Dr. Levicoff will suffer a financial burden regardless the outcome.
    That is my $0.0199.
     
  2. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Interesting speculation, but I seriously doubt it. And if it's true, it's *really* pathetic that the best that these various degree mills can come up with is Enrique Serna. Sort of like OJ relying on an alcoholic public defender.


    Either ways, Dr. Levicoff will suffer a financial burden regardless the outcome.


    How do you figure that Steve will suffer financially? He will probably defend himself, and even the *pre discovery* discovery about MIGS and Sheila is, to be very charitable, extremely unflattering. Were formal discovery to be opened, I have the feeling that things will get *very* uncomfortable for Sheila and Bill, and I also suspect that CEU, the Mexican school who apparently knows little to nothing about any of this, will run screaming from the whole stinking mess.
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If he's playing lawyer he won't be getting paid like a lawyer. There's got to be some kind of impact there.
     
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    <<If he's playing lawyer he won't be getting paid like a lawyer. There's got to be some kind of impact there.>>

    If this does go to trial (which I still don't think it will), especially if it goes in Texas, you also have to figure in travel, lodging, meals, and transportation costs (especially because I don't think it would be a short trial, by Steve's design).

    Of course, Steve may be able to win back all those costs & more in a counter suit if he wins, but that's a subject for another thread.

    Bruce
     
  5. Erma

    Erma New Member

    All of you also make a few good points. However, we should look at the worst case. I support Dr. Levicoff. I don't like non-accredited that operates that way indefinately especially it tells applicant "the school is in working on regional accreditation." You don't see it ever happen to their school accreditation status for years. It is a marketing strategy. It lures people to attend its school. In any event, I don't think Dr. Levicoff can counter suit for his expenses including taking a day or two off from work since there is no damage or injury unless there is a settlement between their lawyer and Dr. Levicoff.
    The worst part is that they can drag on and on the pending case so that the lost to both parties would only hurt Dr. Levicoff in financial and inconvienence.
    Remember, Dr. Levicoff is very popular as popular as Dr. Bear.
    It is hard not to believe that Dr. Levicoff doesn't have any enemy. I suspect.
     
  6. Erma

    Erma New Member

    Again,
    I just want to add another comment. It is the most difficult situation for Dr. Levicoff. For example, if he concedes to this law suit. I mean if he settles with MIGS (in term and condition) then other non-accredited schools or mills (or his enemies) will start doing the same thing filing law suit all over the country. Will this case be on his record for life? Thanks to Rich Douglas...
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    A couple of things I wanted to say.

    MIGS is accredited according to the normal generally accepted accrediting principles used around the world.

    A common definition of degree mill is a substandard school. A substandard school can be accredited. That substandard school can be referred to as a degree mill. This is what has occurred with MIGS.

    The differences of opinion have to do with what is substandard as well as use of the word degree mill. My view is that when the experts on education (John, Chip, Larry, Steve etc.) have some disagreement on whether a school is a degree mill or not there is frequently closer agreement on the substandard or acceptable standard of the schools programs and just a disagreement on whether they feel comfortable applying the term degree mill. They each use a consistent definition for the term themselves but they don't all use the same definition.

    As far as Rich Douglas goes, I don't think it's really fair to place any blame on him. He's not an employee of MIGS. I believe he has been honest and forthright.

    I don't even know of any problem with the schools faculty.

    I believe the problem is more with the school's board. The school's board has consistently maintained a degree mill mentality and that is the problem I have with MIGS. Take a look at http://www.nsmi.com for an example of what I mean. This is a site that is owned and run by a member of the board of MIGS who also has her own degree mill degree and was good friends with at least one degree mill operator.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What do you mean, thanks to me? I didn't have anything to do with it. I wanted Dr. Levicoff to stop calling MIGS a degree mill, and even thought a suit might be necessary to make that happen, but I didn't do it. I don't have any say in what MIGS does or doesn't do. That much of the speech MIGS objects to came about in response to things I posted doesn't make it my fault, if there is even fault here (Steve might prevail, you know, or the two parties may still come to an agreement with no harm to either.)

    You've mentioned this matter's impact on "other non-accredited schools or mills." I would offer to you that MIGS is neither, and only the second is under serious debate.

    Rich Douglas
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm not sure that I believe that.

    Part of what "accreditation" means is external quality assurance. Accreditation, as the word itself suggests, gives us reason to believe in a school, and attests to its credibility.

    In this particular case, I have never been able to find out if anyone has *ever* subjected MIGS to any kind of external examination.

    I'm still unclear why I should trust their academic standards. Considering that MIGS seems to be an entirely new kind of educational institution, I think that these kind of worries are prudent.

    And considering that several people that post on this board have connections to MIGS, I would hope that they would pass on to MIGS' brass that a clear, verifiable and transparent explanation of MIGS' quality assurance oversight is both critical and overdue.

    *****************
    From Meriam Webster's:

    Main Entry: ac·cred·it

    Pronunciation: &-'kre-d&t
    Function: transitive verb
    Etymology: Latin accreditus, past participle of accredere to give credence to, from ad- + credere to believe -- more at CREED
    Date: 1535

    1 : to give official authorization to or approval of: a : to provide with credentials; especially : to send (an envoy) with letters of authorization b : to recognize or vouch for as conforming with a standard c : to recognize (an educational institution) as maintaining standards that qualify the graduates for admission to higher or more specialized institutions or for professional practice

    2 : to consider or recognize as outstanding

    3 : ATTRIBUTE, CREDIT

    synonym see APPROVE
     
  10. Erma

    Erma New Member

    Just like other non-accredited schools that international recognized. For example, the school is accredited by ACI, WAUC, etc...World Accreditation! Do you mean that Dr. Levicoff is losing this law suit if MIGS has accreditation even if it is not recognized by Dept. of Ed?
    What are you allow to call if there are non-accredited school like Bill Clinton University, George Bush University, or Steve Levicoff University? LOL

    I am apologized to Rich Douglas given that I disagree with you, Bill. I feel that Rich Douglas should bare some kind of responsibility unless he think he doesn't have any.
    But again, let me explain my speculation.
    MIGS or whomever Board or Chair of MIGS doesn't monitor the conversation between Rich Douglas and Dr. Levicoff. Who notified MIGS? Where MIGS got the sources. It may seem like I am blaming Rich Douglas for this, but it's just my speculation.

    *I had been written to Dept. of Ed. to ask about some Dist. Ed. non-accredited schools. The response from DOE was "the school is illegal, etc..." Should I turn those emails over to some non-accredited schools so that they can sue the DOE? If I did, I will bare some kind of responsibility.*

    Don't think MIGS do it as a threat. This is a serious matter. It got personal. Imaging it is on 60-Min, 20/20, or Dateline, but I doubt it.
     
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member


    Bill Dayson did an excellent job explaining how MIGS theoretically is accredited. Their degree granting authority comes from the Mexican government via CEU. It's CEU's responsibility to make sure that the MIGS's quality of education is up to standards. This is much different from the bogus international accrediting agencies that you listed, Erma. However, as Bill accurately pointed out we don't really know what if any monitoring or inspections are being done by CEU.

    I thank Bill for clarifying my statement about MIGS being accredited and I agree with everything he said. (And no Lawrie it's not because we are all against you. [​IMG] It's because Bill is correct.)

    I don't think it's fair to blame Rich Douglas even if he reported to MIGS on what Steve said. I think it would be good for MIGS to see what has been written about them. The real hope is that it will get them to come to their senses and clean up their act. I think we would all much rather see MIGS offer quality education and be successful in the educational field than to have another substandard institution that just takes people's time and money. So even if Rich told MIGS, I think he would have done it out of this desire that I'm sure most of us share.
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    <<Bill Dayson did an excellent job explaining how MIGS theoretically is accredited. Their degree granting authority comes from the Mexican government via CEU. It's CEU's responsibility to make sure that the MIGS's quality of education is up to standards. This is much different from the bogus international accrediting agencies that you listed, Erma. However, as Bill accurately pointed out we don't really know what if any monitoring or inspections are being done by CEU.>>

    Speaking of which, I think it would be a good idea for someone to contact CEU and get their impressions about both MIGS and the lawsuit. I would do so, but I'm afraid my Spanish is not up to snuff. Perhaps we could recruit Karlos Lacaye from a.e.d.??

    Bruce
     
  13. Erma

    Erma New Member

     
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm not sure how enlightening that would be. I would expect their response to simply be platitudes. They would try to justify their associaion and deflect embarrasment.

    I think that it might be more interesting to contact the relevant Mexican educational ministry and ask them whether they have the responsibility for academic oversight over CEU's foreign collaborative partners, or whether that responsibility is delegated to CEU.

    If they have the responsibility for that QA oversight, then one needs to ask them what kind of evaluation they actually did, and whether it involved a physical site visit to the United States. If CEU has that responsibility, then we need to ask them what that job normally entails under the Mexican system.

    While we are at it, we might ask what kind of evaluation was associated with CEU being granted the right to grant doctorates, since CEU itself only seems to operate one business administration masters program of its own. All the doctorates are apparently handled by MIGS. If those doctoral programs were examined before approval was granted, somebody must have examined MIGS. But if MIGS wasn't examined, then what did the authorities examine?

    Another organization that could be contacted is ANUIES, the Mexican national association of higher education institutions. They could be asked what the normal Mexican practice is concerning these same kinds of issues. They could also be asked to verify the information on their website which seems to say that CEU only has three full-time graduate faculty of its own.

    I also understand that there is a new initiative underway in Mexico to start an American-style accrediting association. A number of prominent institutions are involved with this, including ANUIES. That suggests the possibility that some sectors of the Mexican higher educational community are not satisfied with the current QA system. Those critics might be contacted and asked to comment on this CEU/MIGS thing. I suspect that they would tell a very different story than CEU or even the Education Ministry.
     
  15. mcqueary

    mcqueary New Member

    But hey, let's leave F. Lee Bailey out of this, OK ;-)
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Well Erma,

    Our little exchange has been a lot of fun and I appreciate it. However, I think that I owe you an apology. I was mistaken and had the silly notion to try and correct you on your statement that MIGS was unaccredited. I thought that it was apparently accredited according to GAAP. Bill Dayson was good enough to correct my initial blanket statement with some excellent points on accreditation.

    It seems that I was just flat out wrong. MIGS is not an accredited degree mill like I supposed. It's even worse than I thought.

    Look at MIGS mentioned here. http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

    Erma, please accept my most sincere apology.

    Have fun,


    ------------------
    Bill Huffman, [email protected]
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member


    [​IMG]
    Larry, I'd forgotten how much I missed your contributions.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I didn't "tell" MIGS. Steve did. Remember, a.e.d., like this one, is a public forum. They had no trouble reading everything Steve wrote. (Again, I'm staying clear of commenting on the suit itself, including its merits. I would prefer the parties settle this matter equitably and without cash changing hands.)

    Rich Douglas
     
  20. H. Piper

    H. Piper member

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    Again, I'm staying clear of commenting on the suit itself, including its merits.

    If it weren't for your non-comments here, Rich, I wouldn't have even realized the MIGS suit had merits. What are they again?

    I would prefer the parties settle this matter equitably and without cash changing hands.

    I figure the odds be mighty slim cash will change hands on this one (unless someone takes me up on my wager: I'll now give 6 touchdowns, 3 field goals, and 12-1 odds if someone wants to take MIGS against my boy Steve). Now if Steve were in California, there is a law about receiving damages as the victim of a frivolous lawsuit...
     

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