Jerry Falwell Jr in the news again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by JoshD, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I think that Liberty's biggest weakness (which paradoxically might simultaneously be its greatest strength) is that it has a reputation for political conservatism. Many people who lean left (most of academia these days) can't stand it for that reason. (Which might indeed be the motivator for this thread.) But at the same time, many on the right will think well of it and perhaps even favor its graduates.

    But you should probably be aware that Liberty doctoral graduates are likely to encounter some prejudice in mainstream university hiring. You aren't likely to get a tenure track position at a University of California with a Liberty PhD. (That position will go to a black lesbian specialist in critical race theory.) Liberty graduates might simultaneously be in considerable demand in conservative think tanks, law firms and places like that. Liberty's law school is starting to generate reputation on the right, even if it doesn't perform particularly well in the US News law-school popularity-contest for precisely that reason.

    One thing about Liberty is that love it or hate it, it's always going to have a fairly high profile. It isn't one of those obscure colleges that nobody has heard of. Everyone has heard of Liberty, everybody has an opinion about it.

    As for me, I like Liberty's politics but I'm not a Christian, so the hard-core Baptist Christianity that it wears on its sleeve wouldn't be very good fit. Nor does it offer graduate degree programs in subjects of most interest to me.
    CalmLogic and copper like this.
  2. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

  3. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    I chose Duke University over Johns Hopkins University. Lol

    That said, I have zero issue with Liberty University and if the doctoral program fits your needs, goals and budget then go for it!
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oopsie! Lots more. I guess that was enough for the board:

    (The pool boy would be sufficient, but this guy is the gift that keeps on giving.)

    I'm a retired Air Force officer, one who worked in education and training, and I wouldn't give such blanket advice. I think anyone considering enrolling at Liberty should consider these matters and make his/her own decision. YMMV.

    I understand. But your investment is far wider and deeper than the tuition price tag. You might want to consider the really big picture. The degree you earn will help identify you for the rest of your life. Try to be as sure as possible it is a good choice, and that means other considerations besides money.
  5. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I assume this is an unsupported assertion. Otherwise, I'd look forward to support for it.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Wow. I agree that one is unlikely to get a tenure track position at Cal on the basis of a Liberty PhD, but your reasoning is odoriferous. And I'm sure you have no support for it.

    Everybody does? I doubt it. Also without support, I suspect most people have never even heard of it.
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I remember when Liberty decided to open a law school. I thought at the time that they knew what they're doing in the academic world which is how they got the ABA to approve their program very quickly. I've seen nothing since to make me change that opinion. They aren't ninnies whatever else they might be.
    JoshD likes this.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I wonder--and it would be mere speculation--how much political (organizational, not Ds/Rs) power had to do with it. They sit on a lot of money and a lot of power.
  10. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    The law school has done well. Top Bar pass rates in the State of Virginia and ranked 7th by the ABA.

    Number 3 in the ABA Top Ten Competition.

    Now a medical school, Carnegie status, etc. Perhaps better for Falwell himself that he steps back so his antics don't eventually impact that.
  11. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Liberty's Acting President - "Dr." Jerry Prevo.

    He does not have any higher education experience from what I read. I did some digging into his academic background. I only could find one source that stated he was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity by Hyles-Anderson College (an unaccredited college in Indiana).

    Although I was hoping Falwell's indefinite leave was a nice way of saying he was fired, it seems to not be the case. As some of you might know, "acting" and "interim" have two different meanings, although sometimes used interchangeably.

    Acting - means someone is filling in temporarily while the officeholder is away (e.g., on leave, training, etc.)
    Interim - means the position is vacant and someone is filling in temporarily while a search for a permanent replacement is appointed
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Right. No higher ed. experience - except at Liberty itself, where he was Chairman of the Board of Trustees until his interim appointment as Acting President. As to his own higher education, it appears he earned his Bachelor's and then did grad work at four different universities - ostensibly without taking a degree. Bit unusual, but so what....
    his record alone makes him a really good fit for Liberty, I'd say.
  13. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I disagree. He's been a Falwell, Jr. enabler for years. Liberty needs someone with "real" higher education administrative/leadership experience to lead the university. I'd say someone outside of the university should be hired to repair the damage done to the university brand over the years.
    Vonnegut and Johann like this.
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry. Didn't realize his "enabling" role. I don't have enough background knowledge, obviously. That changes things entirely. I based my comment on his Moral Majority record etc. I'm sure you're right.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I don't know. When I got my J.D. at the University of New Mexico, the President of the University had an LL.B. as his sole post graduate degree yet he was universally called "Doctor" as a sort of common law convention for Presidents of major Universities. He did a pretty good job, too. There's nothing about running a large public institution that requires Ph.D. research skills. Mostly you need to be skilled at parting the wealthy from their surplus lucre. You can hire someone to do all the rest of the stuff connected with administration, teaching, and research.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Liberty has done a lot of terrific things in distance learning; a real pioneer. But Liberty will always be constrained as long as it stays in the Falwells' shadow. I think you're seeing this with Regent University.
  17. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    When did an LLB become a postgraduate degree? Where I'm from, a first degree isn't required for admissions into an LLB. I'm sure this is also the same in the UK and the Commonwealth nations.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe so, in a lot of places. But law school here (Canada) requires a first degree. There is one law school in Saskatchewan that doesn't - I'm not sure, but admission there may be restricted to First Nations people.

    Here's the blurb from one of our better-known Universities.

    "In order to qualify to be accepted into law school, most law schools in Canada require the completion of equivalent of at least three full-time years, or a completed degree. ... At the University of Toronto almost all law students have completed at least a four-year degree."

    Also, hasn't a degree been traditionally required for entry into law schools in US since LLB days? Nosborne, please correct me if that's not so.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm aware of US law programs for the incarcerated where that degree requirement may be waived (and no, I'm not a grad) but in general ...?

    Oh yes - and here are the US requirements from one source: (

    Requirements for Application

    To apply for law school in the US, you will need:
    • Bachelor's degree or equivalent (4-year university degree) in any subject.
    • To register for the Credential Assembly Service (CAS) – nearly all ABA-approved law schools (and some non-ABA-approved schools) require that their applicants register for and complete their applications through the CAS.
    • Your LSAT scores
    • Relevant teacher or professional recommendations
    • Your TOEFL score if English is not your native language
    • Financial documents showing proof of funds for the academic year (only if you are applying for an F1 visa).
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  20. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    As far as I know, Canada awards the J.D., which, according to UofT Law School, is not a graduate degree.

    In Canada, the first-level common law degree is the Juris Doctor or JD, which takes three years to complete. It is an undergraduate degree program, and not a graduate degree program, even though prior undergraduate education is required for entry.

    As far as admissions:

    Even if the law school you are applying to does not require it, your application will be more competitive if you have completed your undergraduate degree.

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