Isn't a DL doctorate a waste of time?

Real grad students don't go into academia for the money. Most of them in quantitative disciplines could make a lot more as bankers.

 

A few years ago there was an article in the AAAS Science Journal that many Ph.D.s were being hired by financial institutions at far greater salaries than offered by academia or the manufacturing sector. I tried finding the article but my AAAS membership has lapsed.

 

Maniac Craniac,

I firmly believe that no one could. If you wanted a degree for the private sector you would probably enroll in an M.B.A. program, not a doctoral program in business (or anything else for that matter). It's much easier academically and the financial payoff is often better.

 

Premiere -

You've come to a portal about online and distance education and decided to post commentary attacking the mission. This is equivalent to walking into your friend's house sitting down at the dinner table after being invited, and proceeding to drop trousers, wiping your rear end with the table cloth.

If you're feeling a bit of heat, that's why. It's called basic etiquette.

Now to your points.

1. Yes a MBA is a better investment within business than a doctorate, unless you already have a MBA and you're moving into consulting or you already have a MBA, are a C level exec at a smaller firm and need to differentiate yourself with a DBA prior to jumping to a larger firm. (in context to your obvious achievements)

2. One of the detriments of a home-school background is that often (and this is the APA and other research speaking, not just myself) the social skills that allow someone to interact effectively with the community are not well-learned. In exchange, many home-schooled students have advanced skill in the areas their parents were expert. I've no doubt you're smart if you're not making things up for the sake of argument, but the social thing is playing out.

3. Online doctorates are not "jokes". People can be. A degree is just an affirmation. Individuals with doctorates earned online have been placed in tenured positions at T3 universities and I'd gather that will continue to occur until the groundswell breaks barriers. Ultimately, it's not the degree that matters, it's the research and the person.

 

OK, I have cleaned up this thread and removed the bickering and inflammatory posts.

Also, Premiere seems to have vanished after I PMed him and invited him to behave in a more civil manner.

So I'll trust the rest of our community members to keep the discussion civil and polite, given that Premiere seemed only interested in stirring up trouble.

 

It might also help to read the PMI journal, too... I was a member of PMI for many years, when I was part of a team that bought / marketed a UNIX-based project management software package. I learned a lot a project management and made a little bit of dough...

 

In my experience, people who hate people also hate truth... hating people and hating truth often go hand in hand. (There are some very good theories in personality psychology and social psychology that lend support as well.)

 

Would you care to give some sources for this assertion?

 

Groan. A lot of us have great MBAs already. A doctorate is just an excellent chance to freshen up your skills and take on a massive reseach project on a subject that you are passionate about. I was interested in doing it by distance because I already make decent amounts of money, and would rather keep the income stream coming in and do the doc as a side project. The best decision I ever made was to stop waffling, pick a school and get on with it. I am around 6 months away from finishing at this point.

Now I have to get back to my chapter 5...

 

So so true. Your on to something.

 

Yes! I have the same feelings about it. I can't take 4 or 5 years off of work so DL is the way to go. I already make decent money with teaching and a side business. So I'm not doing it for income either, although that plays a part, I'm passionate about my subject and I want another mountain to climb. I love to study and I love to write. So I hope to be at the point you are at now in a couple of years.

 

Do you mean that people are hated for telling the truth? Do you mean that people that hate in general also hate the truth?

While all of this may or may not be true, you can also hate people who are just plain old morons. By the way, I think the original question of "Do you want people to hate you? Is that why you say things like this?" does not refer to you as a "truth-teller".

 

Folks... this thread is on DL Doctorates, not on whether or not people hate one another and why. If you want to discuss that, please start a new thread in "Off Topic."

Thank you

 

I had an interesting discussion with a colleague at work concerning Doctorates. She has a number of degrees and wants to gain knowledge about the business world for her own benefit. She does not work in business. She is in her mid thirties and has a good career in government. She wanted the degree to support her private investment strategies etc.

If she should want to go into the business world, we thought the prestige of a degree from a well recognised university will be expensive and will not substitute for the lack of experience in business at her age. We thought that since knowledge was the primary objective, a lesser recognised university would provide the knowledge required without an awesome and unjustifiable expenditure.

The outcome of the discussion was that we rationalised that the prestige of the degree is highly relevant to entry potential in the better career niches for younger people. A prestige degree, coupled with substantial experience, for mid career individuals will add great value. A prestige degree with no experience will not compete, however, with a person with substantial experience and a more pedestrian degree.

D/L Doctorates from my view are for people who want to build upon existing knowledge and skills so that they can gain advantage in their present careers or an allied fields. They may open the door to higher level positions which in turn may open the door to university teaching at the end of the career stream. The D/L doctorate may just tick the box for the university bureaucracy, the work based experiential knowledge and status is the real deal maker.

The PhD from a B& M school is for those that want to be tigers in research. Opportunities in research, from my experience, tend to come from associations and networks established by elites. The prestige of the school and the elites may determine how far you go. Researchers need a "deep vein of money" which elites have more access to.

You won't get these from D/L doctorates, but you may already have networks and professional associations within your occupational grouping that the D/L Doctorate may enhance. You can build on these networks through professional conferences and publications. The D/L Doctorate may get you heard or published in these more easily.

The value in the D/L Doctorate is in the application of business skills, rather than research positions which may be highly limited by prestige and elitist networks. Doing, rather than looking at those that do or what they do, may be the key issue. Teachers from the "doing world" will always be highly sought after. Experience is almost everything in the credibility stakes.

You need to pick where you are in life to establish the investment strategy for the outcomes that will meet your needs. Time and money investments in higher education are considerable and in the top range of expenditures in your life with social and financial detriments, if not pitched correctly. D/L doctorates have a market niche.

 

The doctorate is the best degree for DL, with the possible exception of a mid-career master's in a practitioner's area of study (like HR).

Doctoral study, particularly the dissertation or thesis, is a lonesome affair. It can be done in near isolation, provided that sufficient guidance is given.

That said, I really recommend doing a DL doctorate with a residential component. The times spent face-to-face with one's peers and faculty can be invaluable.

I speak from experience, having taken both the short- and non-residential paths. More on that in a year or so.

 

Well said.

 

I think the second one...

 

Not sure about this... These DL doctoral programs get loaded up with far too many students, ten times (?) more than ever can be supervised and graduated. It is just too tempting for the operators of these schools to admit ten times the number students that they have capacity, ability, or even intent to graduate.

What about informed consent to the students? "Advisory: 90% of you are going to be victims of this doctoral program. We have no ability or intent to graduate all of you or even any of you. We don't know exactly who will be the victims or the size of your financial or consequential losses. However, many of you are going to suffer immensely and we don't give a crap; as long as we get paid and can pretend that were are all smarter than you, that is all we really care about..."

That should do for informed consent, I believe.

 

I think some of that is attitude is changing (or at least varies) depending on the size and nature of the institution.

I am enrolled at a private, not for profit school. There are 15 are in each DSc cohort and in the first class we were told that 50 - 60% of us would not complete the program. I appreciated their honesty.