Isn't a DL doctorate a waste of time?

I am not sure what data was used for a 10% completion rate for phd programs. However, the more I research is the more I disagree with that number. The cumulative success rate is over 50%.
News: Ph.D. Completion Gaps - Inside Higher Ed

 

I would think that, if the success rate is very high, it's not tough enough. I seems to me that a success rate of 50% would be the highest success rate that any doctorate should ever have and lower would be better. It's gotta be tough to be a respected terminal degree. I wonder what the rate is at NCU? Schools will usually not share this info.

 

I'm saying that think it is ethically and morally outrageous to "kill" 75% to 90% of your students, while extorting money and time from them as well.

I can think of no other human endeavor where such a process does not involve criminal acts, such as fraud and negligence.

Imagine a whitewater rapids guide who came back with 1 person from a 10-man raft and said, "It happens. They said they wanted a whitewater adventure, so I gave them one..."

Or imagine the medical doctor whose intervention was shown to have an acute effect of killing 9 out of 10 patients, but s/he said, "Look, they said they wanted a cure and they signed the consent to treatment..."

Primum non nocere!

 

You are missing a key point - the student is in more control of the situation. If McDonald served empty cartons to 90% of their customers, the customer would be the victim and not have any control or say in the matter. If 90% of the students do not make it through a PhD program, they are not the victim, they were in some control.

 

kinda like people who sign up for marathons, never prepare, or train poorly... just to flop/faint/pass out before the end?

 

I thought Dave did a good job. In his analogies there was not one narrissist!

 

After reading all of these posts, I guess I am confused about how the PhD process works. After you take all the classes and pass them, you do your dissertation but if they do not like it, it’s done with. You failed? No second chance?

 

Oh sure, as many second chances as you want. You just have to keep trying until they approve. Some people do it quickly, some take many tries. I think a lot depends on the committee you draw. Some members seem to be opposed to passing anyone, others are more reasonable. That's why I'm going to try to be very careful in my selection, if they let me. The problem is that, especially in a profit school, you continue to pay as you try and try again. A great many people just eventually give up.

 

Michael is on point here - it's all about your committee.

I took great care in selecting my committee. My two Capella faculty members I had for multiple courses at Capella before I selected my committee. For my outside reader, I met him at a conference where I presented a paper. He made a lot of positive comments publicly about my presentation. After getting to know him, I found out he was a Vietnam Vet, actively involved in Veteran's Issues through the UMass - Boston Joiner Center for Veteran Studies, and yep, had a Ph.D and an Associate Editor for Armed Forces and Society...no brainer. He was my biggest cheerleader, as well as the best in putting his foot in my a$$...

Shawn

 

I might hit you up for some tips when it's time to select mine, if that's OK.

 

Go for it.

Tip 1 - start presenting your coursework papers at conferences!

Shawn

 

How do you get started with that?

 

That's the way it is ...

In response to an earlier question concerning pass/fail, I think it has to do with the fundamental admission policies of the institution. For-profits tend to welcome any individual that has the interest to study (and of course, some basic pre-requisites) but are generally not that choosy over the students they admit. However, what a lot of people can't accept is that admission is no guarantee of graduation (well, at least not at the doctoral level). In the old-school setups, it can get difficult to get admitted into the doctoral program, but the graduation rate is higher. All said, the doctoral journey is a difficult and challenging one, so I would say that "vanity" is most likely insufficient fuel.

For the question on conferences. The old schools tend to give better exposure to their students in this aspect. Still, it is not impossible to search on the web for conferences related to the area under your study and to prepare papers per the conference theme(s). Some conferences accept working papers while others prefer full research papers. Try joining an organization or society related to your field to get started. Publishing papers at conferences is a good way of building your confidence, dissertation writing skills and academic resume. At a start, you might just want to subscribe to some journals and read the articles.

<tongue-in-cheek> I smile when some people gripe in forums how tough their teachers are, or the school reviewers - these people have probably never submitted articles to journals - some of the reviewers out there can get real cruel! <g>

Just my 2 cents ...

 

pick out conferences in your field

check their sites

you should find "calls for papers" like

this COMSOL : Conference 2010 - Boston : Call for Papers

IMFAR - Call for Abstracts

ASP's 2010 Annual Meeting

Calls for Submissions


you get the idea

if you submit your work to journals or are recommended, you may get invited, but responding to CFP is typically how you'd get that "first foot in" .

 

100% correct. Find a Call For Papers for a conference and submit your proposal. That's what I did.

Shawn

 

Shawn and gettingthere,

Thanks, that's good info. Much appreciated.

 

Sorry... When in teacher mode, I confront students with memorable parables to the end of the course. When in counselor mode, I roll with client resistance to clinical infinity. The reaction in either mode, indicates how much has been learned.

Still, what you are describing is ordinary consumer fraud with concomitant prison terms for the convicted perpetrators, because no consumer will knowingly pay full price for a missing or damaged product / service.

Such is the case with some of the DL doctoral programs; the process lacks informed consent by the school. These fraudulent educational schemes most closely resemble unregistered sweepstakes (which are illegal in most states), where the perpetrators change the odds of winning, require more tickets to be purchased, award prizes to "shills" or "plants", or fail to award prizes at all.

Any attorney general or district attorney is familiar with such "bunko" schemes and should be willing to prosecute.