Is getting a Psyd from an unaccredited school worth it?

Does anyone know if other States grant reciprocity based on California licensure in Psychology? Like I said before, I am not a fan of unaccredited schools overall but once licensed in a a US State or Territory, many Federal organizations like the VA Hospitals, prisons, etc. will recognize the license.

 

I have never heard of any state offering reciprocity for the holder of an unaccredited school. This is why it is so often asked if the prospective student has any sense that they might move from California in the future because this would render the degree almost worthless.

 

Holding a license to practice and seeking reciprocity to practice in another State or Territory is not necessarily related to where one graduates from.

 

Kizmet's right -and yes, they are related, for this reason: There are 12 reciprocating states and provinces, ALL of which require either APA /CPA accreditation of the doctoral program or, if it is non-APA /CPA, that it meet the definition of an acceptable doctorate by the National Register or the ASPPB. I believe the the states and provinces require this of all seeking licensure - by reciprocity or otherwise.

Here's some APA info. The reciprocity part is around the middle.

Early-Career Insights--License to move

Here's the National Register's page on Acceptable Doctorates:

National Register of Health Service Psychologists

Non-APA / CPA programs must meet ALL OF criteria 2 through 11.

Criterion 2 reads:

Training in professional psychology is doctoral training offered in a regionally accredited institution of higher education. A regionally accredited institution is an institution with regional accreditation in the United States, an institution with provincial or territorial authorization in Canada, or in other countries, an institution that is accredited by a body that is deemed by the ASPPB/National Register Designation Committee to be performing a function equivalent to U.S. regional accrediting bodies."

Looks like Cal. Unaccred grads need not apply -- outside California, that is.

Johann

 

More on Reciprocity:

If it helps, here's a map of ASPPB reciprocal agreement members. As you will see, California is not a member. Across the State Line, Nevada is. :smile:

http://www.asppb.net/files/public/AOR_Map_July_2008.pdf

And here's a fuller explanation of how the ASPPB reciprocity agreements work:

ASPPB Agreement of Reciprocity Overview - Association of State and Provincial Psychology Boards

Johann

 

Just curious because we have seen other professions in California that were graduates of unaccredited schools gain license reciprocity in other states.

Here is a case law for review. Ferro vs. Utah
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14603329443974966009&q=FERRO+v.+UTAH&hl=en&as_sdt=2,29&as_vis=1

 

I read it -- and the court's decision was that the Board must go back and take another look. Here's the relevant part:

"We emphasize that our holding should not be misconstrued as requiring that Dr. Ferro be admitted to practice psychology in Utah. Under the reciprocity provision, that decision remains in the sound discretion of the Board.[12]"

Other professions are other professions. This is psychology. It deals with really serious stuff! Although I have heard something to the effect that "a lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns," I think psychology and medicine trump other professions, as far as potential damage from un-or-underqualified practitioners goes. So, qualifying boards need to be ultra-careful.

Anyway, does anybody really want to have to sue their way into a career? That's what it looks like a graduate of a Cal. Unaccredited Psychology program might have to do, beyond the borders of the State where he/she earned the degree. Assuming, of course, that licensing for the practice of psychology is involved.

Johann

 

Many States have an online professional license verification lookup. The individual mentioned in the case study was found to hold a current and active Psychologist license in the State of Utah!
https://secure.utah.gov/llv/search/index.html;jsessionid=f4781cf8a0ed29095032a12241ff

I am sure there are other examples across the country where folks were able to get reciprocity based on the license held in California and years of practice, etc. and not solely based on graduation of an unaccredited school! Like I said, reciprocity based on professional licensure is not necessarily related to graduation from an unaccredited school. However, I agree that going to an unaccredited school poses numerous limitations!

 

You are 100% correct Delta, it is a house build on sand.
A lot of people base a descision on what is happening now rather than 20 years from now.
20 years from now, you will have to have an accredited degree in California.
This second tier system is not going to last forever.
Just look back in mental health 20 years ago:
Unacredited degrees were easy and plenty.
John Gray, and example used earlier in this thread used his degree without question.
Then the questions came, and although profitable, not taken seriously by the mental health professions.
He will never speak at an APA conference or an AAMPT convention in the current era. He will never bu published in any academic journals, or mentioned as a citation or reference in the current era.
20 years ago the LPC did not exist in most states, now it does.
20 years ago, when it did exist it took a 32 hour degree, now 60 in all states.
Regulation and requirement are NOT going down.
It is a house built on sand.
20 years from now, you will have very limited opportunity, even in California.

 

Interesting to note, John Gray is NOT using his Ph.D. on the front page of his website MarsVenus.com - John Gray - Relationship and Health Advice
(you can find it in inconspicuous places on the inside pages)
Gray got his degree in a time and place when it was legal, acceptable and normal to do what he did.
It has caused him tremendous credibility problems in the current era.
And if he lived outside of California, every one of those problems would be compounded.

 

Right. You can add relationship expert (?) "Dr." Barbara DeAngelis to that list. Her CPU* Ph.D. helped her sell a lot of books. She and "Dr." John Gray, (Also CPU* Ph.D.) whom you mentioned, were married at one point. Gray's third wife, her fifth husband, I think. They both chalked up another divorce. Relationship advice from these two "Doctors?" Holy cow!. And that brings me back (last time I promise) to the case cited in the thread. The petitioner's doctoral degree, conferred on him some 38 years ago, was from an unaccredited school, which only later became accredited (Union Institute).

If he's made it through the back door, OK. Board's decision, after (I assume) careful deliberation. I don't think an applicant today, with a degree from a school never accredited would make it through any door. But what do I know? One (business) law course and 18 units of undergrad psych. don't make me a lawyer or a psychologist - even if they were all from accredited schools. :smile:

Johann

* CPU = Unaccredited Columbia Pacific University, which eventually had its California licence revoked and was ordered closed.

 

My error - mis-statement re CPU above. The State of California originally issued CPU a full institutional license. Some years later, control over licensing of unaccredited schools passed to the newly-convened BPPVE. BPPVE found numerous deficiencies at CPU and the school's application to the BPPVE for a licence was denied. Contrary to what I wrote, no licence was actually revoked. However I think I am correct in stating that CPU was subsequently ordered closed, amid litigation.

Whole story here: Columbia Pacific University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And sorry for this error: Dr. Ferro received his Union Institute degree 33 years ago, not 38 years ago. My point stands, though...:smile:

Johann

 

New Utah law

Here is a link showing a new law that allows military folks and their civilian spouses who are licensed in other States to practice in Utah:
http://www.dopl.utah.gov/forms/Military_Exemptions.pdf
Scenario: GI Joe's wife a licensed whatever in California and a graduate of an unaccredited school gets to practice anywhere in Utah because they recognize California licenses. Hence, the school becomes irrelevant! This is today's law and we're not talking about 30 years ago.

http://www.dopl.utah.gov/forms/Military_Exemptions.pdf


The fact is, license reciprocity is up to each State or US Territory Professional Board. The fact the applicant for reciprocity graduated from an unaccredited school may or may not be relevant! I've seen numerous nurses graduate unaccredited but State approved nursing schools and later obtain license to practice in other States. I have shown that a Psychologist from California did so with an unaccredited degree from a California approved school. I have shown that it is now possible for it to be done today in the State of Utah. Is it possible in other States or Territories? Probably! Do I like it? Irrelevant!

Legal Precedent defined:
Precedent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

People are usually grandfathered in with changes like this.

 

Legal? OK. Acceptable? Normal? Not OK. If it was really acceptable/normal then he'd have no current problems. He got away with it for a while because most people simply didn't know better. Once people became aware they fell out of love (like all his wives).

 

Here's another one:
Michigan allows for licensure by endorsement if one held and currently holds a license for 10 years in another state.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch_psyc_full_app_pkt_92012_7.pdf

 

Best advice in the whole thread. :smile:

Johann

 

Thanks, but I'm just channeling John on that one.....

 

I know. Good for you. Advice that good deserves frequent repetition. :smile:

Johann