Is DSc also Inferior to PhD ?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jaiho, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think Tony's study showed that Accounting and IT were the fields with more DBAs. It makes sense as it is not easy to find qualified faculty for these fields so my guess is that any doctorate would do.

    For a research intensive University, my guess is that the PhD would be preferred. For a four year university or community college that hardly requires research, I honestly don't think it matters.

    Same for adjuncts, if you are just teaching a course here and there, a terminal degree is more than enough.

    If a DBA has a strong research record, I don't think it would matter much the designation either. I rather hire a DBA with an impressive publication record for a research professor position than someone with a PhD with one or two publications on uknown journals or conferences.
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I know a man who had earned a PhD and then earned another. The school awarded him a DSc as they considered it to be a superior designation. Maybe that's just a Massachusetts thing.
  3. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Indeed, many job listings I have read say "an earned doctorate in business....". DBA or PhD doesn't matter. The phrase that often is used and does matter is "from a school accredited by AACSB".

    Regards - Andy
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Largely, these "Ph.D. vs. DBA (or whatever)" threads are filled with differences without distinctions. There doesn't seem to be this level of consternation in the "real world."
  5. foobar

    foobar Member

    Bingo. This is probably also true for the schools that just specify a Ph.D. in their job descriptions. There is a lot of ignorance about the availability of a DBA from an AACSB school, especially in university HR departments.

    However . . . there IS some prejudice against "executive" doctorates, even from AACSB schools.
  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The website appears to be using the PhD in a generically semantic way, as most Americans do. It's all about semantics. If a PhD website is created, everybody knows exactly what they're referring to and, thus, it reaches the widest audience possible. The benefactors who created the website would equally help an African American pursue and achieve a DBA or an EdD because it would achieve the same goal i.e. advancing people of color.

    There are many colleges and universities who only offer the PhD and not other doctoral designations. The PhD is obviously the most well known doctoral designation throughout the United States. It's almost reached cult status, but it certainly doesn't mean that other RA research doctorates are not of equal value -- or even superior value, depending on the degree granting institution and the number of publications generated by the doctoral holder.

    Would you rather have a 100% RA PhD from an online school such as NCU or Walden -- or would you rather have a Harvard DBA? Most people will know exactly what the PhD is, while many have no idea what a DBA or a EdD is.

  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    RFValve, a research intensive university would not necessarily prefer an online PhD over a Harvard DBA, simply because of a holy grail PhD designation. Publications are a greater factor than the doctoral designation of PhD, DBA or EdD.
  9. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    No. Extending the body of knowledge (i.e. finding a hole in the knowledge base of a discipline and conducting a study to generate new knowledge and fill the hole) is the goal of all research dissertations, whether they be part of a Ph.D., Ed.D. or DBA program. I hear a lot about "applied" dissertations, but no one has done any research to show that extending the body of knowledge is only done in Ph.D. programs.
  10. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    That is easy - I had the choice and went with the PhD because people know that that is - :crazy:
  11. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Absolutely right. Scholarship matters far more than the letters that constitute the doctoral degree.
  12. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Speaking of Harvard DBAs:

    Peer reviewed Journal article

    International Journal of Doctoral Studies

    The Business Professional Doctorate as an
    Informing Channel: A Survey and Analysis 2009

    T. Grandon Gill
    University of South Florida (Harvard DBA)

    Hope those of us that believe there is little or no difference are right.

    Northcentral University has taken a PhD only stance for their full time dissertation chairs, telling a Nova DBA not to bother applying. Why?
  13. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    I tried finding out the real story when I was in Gainesville a couple of years ago. I was told many things including academic snobbery kill it.

    It is interesting that so few AACSB schools offer the DBA. Boston University recently killed their DBA program:

    Boston University DBA | Boston University DBA Program

    Boston University is an AACSB Top 50 business school.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2012
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Indiana University also changed its designation. I probably will be accused of being a "lier" and "conspiracy theorist" but based on all these changes, I believe the DBA brand is being perceived as a "light" PhD by many.

    Universities are changing designations for a reason. Students do not want to end with a brand that is perceived as inferior by the market.

    Partly to blame, are many of the new executives DBAs or DMs (e.g. Walden, Case Western) that can be completed in 3 years while holding a full time job, raising a family, etc. These programs send the message to the market that DBAs or DMs are not equivalent to a rigorous PhD that requires 5 years full time attendance at a traditional university.

    Yes, someone with a DBA designation can make it to become a professor or research chair at a University provided that the holder has a good publication record. However, I am afraid that in 3 years part time a graduate would have hardly any experience publishing or presenting at conferences so the chances of the graduate having a publication record is low.

    The DBA or DM is slowly being sold as a new super MBA that is mainly targeted for executives and professionals that have little interest in becoming full time academics. These programs put more emphais on course work, applied projects and demand less academic research. The traditional student taking this type of program is the professional that wants to remain in industry but wants to have a credential to teach on the side as an adjunct.
  15. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    I believe you are the only one participating in this discussion that is a full-time faculty member at an AACSB school. Am I correct?

    Indiana University, Arizona State, and the University of Southern California changed from DBA to PhD.

    Two of the remaining schools have no choice.

    Cleveland State University’s DBA program was also a politically created compromise,
    according to Associate Dean Raj Javalgi. Politically, the program was created because
    Cleveland State University (CSU) was unable to get a Ph.D. program approved with Kent State and Ohio State located proximate to CSU (source: Dr. Gill's article).

    At Harvard University, only the Faculty of Arts and Sciences (FAS) can grant the Doctor of Philosophy degree. Therefore, only doctoral programs administered by or jointly administered with the Faculty of Arts and Sciences are "PhD programs."(source: HBS)

    The $90,000 KSU DBA is a full-time program for working adults with a three-year schedule. Notwithstanding what a confused reporter calls it if it doesn't matter why not call it a PhD from the start? IMO the AACSB would not allow them to call it a PhD.
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is really confusing as the site mentions "Almost all of our students maintain their full-time professional careers, and students spend approximately 20-25 hours a week in preparation for the residencies."

    So it is a "full time program" that can be completed by full time professionals. If a student is only required to spend between 20-25 hrs a week to me it is a "part time" program but perhaps it is sold as a full time program in order to justify the 3 years (that seems to be rather short for a part time program).

    KSU Coles College of Business - DBA Frequently Asked Questions

    The program is $90K but is it targeted towards people looking for tenure tracks "The KSU DBA prepares students to pursue careers in tenure-track positions at AACSB accredited business institutions".

    I believe the $90K makes sense as the opportunity cost of going to a full time 5 year program is too high. Perhaps this format will be the future of doctoral programs.

    At a separate note, some Canadian schools actually have changed their designations from PhD to DBA, this is the case of the University of Sherbrooke. The logic behinds this is that DBA programs might be more attractive to people looking for keep options open to industry.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2012
  17. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    It appears that NCU has made a research distinction between a PhD, a DBA and a EdD, although certainly not to the global degree that RFValve is proposing. Click here for an old 2009 NCU dissertation handbook and read pages 6-8 to see what their distinction is. If somebody has a link to a newer handbook, then please post it.
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    RFValve, you write grandiose statements, such as:

    University's are offering DBAs as a watered down versions of PhDs with:
    - fewer courses
    - not requiring statistics
    - not requiring a dissertation (but a project instead).

    Naturally, the above "drive by" claim isn't supported by anything factual, at least not at the regionally accredited level.

    Now you are suddenly mixing DMs with DBAs to support your theory that DBAs are watered down PhDs.

    Some of what you write is factual, but it doesn't support the errors that you print. Instead, mixing facts with errors confuses the issue for unsuspecting readers who are not familiar with doctoral degrees.
  19. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    "Full-time" is a designation for financial aid availability. For undergraduate students, 12 semester units per term is considered full-time; however, for graduate schools "full-time" can be 6-9 units per term (depending on the school). As I stated on another thread, the issue is not how many years it takes to complete a program, it is how many total units are required. A 60 unit doctoral program that considers full-time student to be taking 6 units at a time for two semesters out of the year will take far longer to complete than a 60 unit program that considers full time to be 9 units per term and offers 3-4 terms per year.
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The differences between a DBA and a PhD are not the same in the U.S. as they are abroad. Since outside the U.S. the system is usually "coursework + little book" for the DBA and "big book" for the PhD, I can see how un-Americans would see much more of a difference.

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