I know it was you Fredo.

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Kizmet, Jul 11, 2017.

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  1. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member


    So she was let in by the Obama DOJ, which then used her planned meeting (how did they know?) and emails with Don Jr to open a FISA warrant which allowed them to turn on a smart phone mic on a cell phone in the room. So the US Government has a recording of this meeting. Oh, the other lawyer Rinat Akhmetshin went to the white house for a tour before they met with Jr. Oh yes I bet its the Russians again. Also she worked for a Democratic operative company and attended anti Trump rallies and had anti Trump posts on Facebook. Yep, we got him now! Donald Jr. is going to be impeached!!!!!!!!!!! It's over pack the bags Jr. is out of the Whitehouse.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Donald Jr. is going to be impeached, somebody said? How? I believe only civil officers of government can be impeached.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

    Donald Jr. and his brother Eric are trustees and executive directors of The Trump Organization. That's it, officially.
    I'm sure there are ways to keep him out of the White House if such is thought desirable. And if he commits a crime, he can be charged, like anyone else.

    But - impeached? I think that's for people who actually have official government jobs. Not their relatives.

    J.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Regardless of whether a person believes Donald Jr. to be a naïve innocent or a immoral conspirator there is one thing that is undeniable. That is that the list of issues/incidents on Robert Mueller's investigative agenda continues to grow. This is exactly the sort of thing that he was asked to investigate and so it is now added to an already long list of questions/allegations that he and his group have to work through. This is important because as long as this investigation is happening it will create a cloud over the Trump presidency and create a huge distraction away from whatever his legislative agenda might include (you know, that wall he was going to build, etc.) Having hit the 6 month mark of his presidency, it's now easy to imagine that Trump will go through the entire first year without any legislative victories. Now Donald may not really care about this but all those Republicans in the Congress who are up for re-election in 2018 have made many, many promises to their constituents about all the cool things they were going to do. Those constituents might not like it if those promises are broken and they might decide to vote for someone else. Who knows. So, you see, this little dust-up with Donald Jr. begins to have implications far beyond "Is he bad or simply stupid?"
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes, indeed this (Mueller's long list) will create a huge distraction, as Kizmet says.

    Well, he did succeed in getting a $1.6 billion appropriation through for the start of The Wall the other day. No big victory, but it's something ...isn't it? :smile:

    House Republicans Add Funding For Trump's Border Wall In Homeland Security Budget

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2017
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  7. jhp

    jhp Member

  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    You know I was going to post that and thought better of it. I get scammed from time to time. I guess I'm a bad person.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Leave it to a Conservative to mistake compassion for dishonesty.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, and then they had dirt on Trump campaign and did nothing with it. Gotcha. This conspiracy theory is as dumb as Birtherism; good to know that Trump crowd doesn't change.

    Let's just acknowledge one fact: Veselnitskaya either is or works for Russian intelligence. And not just for that mission; her whole biography screams that. So, seeing how Trump campaign was approached by Russian intel and did not rebuff that approach, I wonder if the conversation continued beyond. I wonder if that bizarre thing with Trump guys softening Republican platform plank on Ukraine was not a message to their new friends. It sort of does not make sense any other way.
     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  13. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Conspirator in what?
     
  14. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Probably something in-between. But Decimon's point still stands: In order for there to be a "conspiracy", there has to be an underlying crime.

    Doing "opposition research" on political opposents isn't a crime. Receiving what Stanislav calls "kompromat" isn't a crime. Even if the political opponents are democrats and even if the opponent is Hillary. The DNC was doing it, "colluding" with the Ukrainian embassy and the oddly-named Ms. Chalupa, to say nothing of joining some "never Trumper" Republicans in paying Mr. Steele (sounds like a name of a TV spy) in the UK to produce his bizarre "golden showers" dossier. The mainstream media have made it their business to do non-stop opposition research on every tiny aspect of the Trump administration, in hopes of unearthing some juicy 'kompromat' that they can use to subvert the elected US government. Those things are certainly crude and they are dirty, they are being done with a viciousness and a fanaticism never before seen in US politics, but are they illegal?

    So you're admitting that Mueller is the democrats' open-ended fishing-expedition?

    Look, the only obvious crime that we've really seen so far (apart from Hillary's server, the pay-to-play payments allegedly made by foreign governments to the Clinton foundation and all of that) is the flood of ostensible leaks, including what is purported to be national security information, that's supposedly being directed by unpatriotic democrats in the federal civil service to the left-media. The "highly placed sources" that the New York Times and the Washington Post always refuse to name. The secret CIA and NSA files that walk out the door and end up on Wikileaks. Assuming that the information is real, the people responsible for that kind of shit need to be identified, arrested and sentenced to long prison terms (or even death). If the information isn't real, then that would satisfy the legal definition of 'collusion', individuals working together to commit fraud against third parties (the American voters in this case).

    That's where the investigations should focus.

    That's what you personally hope, isn't it?

    Those of us who voted for Trump did so because he was the only candidate that spoke to our issues. We aren't going to abandon our issues just because the democrats in the career civil service and in the news media try to destroy him. That was expected, it comes with the territory when fighting evil people. We might choose to favor different Congressional candidates, depending on what current members of Congress do, but those aren't likely to be democratic candidates. They will probably be more militantly aggressive Republican candidates, ones more willing to fight together and use their Congressional majority in accomplish important things. So if there is dissatisfaction among the electorate, it isn't just democrats moving left and becoming 'resistance' fighters and embracing the Bernie-wing of the party. Republicans (Americans) will be doing the exact same thing.

    By adopting a policy of "resistance", by rioting in the streets, fighting every conceivable aspect of Trump's administration, you give him perfect cover, the perfect excuse. Voters aren't going to blame him when they can see the kind of pressure that he's under from all of the entrenched elites, the "news" media, entertainment, academia, much of the business elites (when they can rip themselves away from colluding with China), even the entrenched federal civil service (including the intelligence agencies).

    Trump won in November without a whole lot of media campaigning, partly by playing rope-a-dope with his elite opponents, by attracting the most hysterical opposition that half the country (including a majority of America's white middle class) saw as disdain directed squarely at them and their issues. The left's attacks on Trump just served him as more illustrations. Voters didn't like it and voted accordingly, surprising all the pollsters. It was brilliant in its way. (Hillary's "deplorables" remark did more damage to her own campaign than anything any imaginary Russians supposedly did.)

    Now everyone can see the pressure directed at bringing down his administration and effectively engineering a coup. They see the riots in the streets and on university campuses. They see that all efforts are being directed at preventing half the American people from having any voice in the country's future. That's going to help explain any failures of Trump's administration and it will ensure that his base doesn't abandon him.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2017
  15. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    "“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.” - Lavrentiy Beria

    A requirement for an investigation is evidence of a crime committed. That is here lacking.

    Mueller loading up a team of Trump opponent lawyers? Maybe that should be investigated.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I've not "admitted" anything. The investigation will proceed, probably for months and months. Mueller has been given wide latitude as to what he sees as relevant and there's every reason to believe he'll follow every lead wherever it goes. This is no different than the investigation of Bill Clinton which started with Whitewater and ended with impeachment re Monica Lewinski. Once the Mueller investigation is over, a report is produced which includes recommendations re prosecution. It's the DoJ that decides whether to prosecute, not Mueller. We've been led to believe that Mueller will not leak his findings and so we might not know much for a long time. I'm ok with waiting.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I can understand why you'd be upset. I think a lot of people are upset. But please don't waste your time being upset with me. I know that I don't always get what I want. I didn't vote for Trump. I don't like him. But he's the President regardless of what I want. So I just hope that he and his people do their jobs honestly and well. In the end that's all that I can hope for. This investigation is about the honesty aspect. If he and his people come out clean then they come out clean. I won't be crying about a coverup like some others are crying about a witch hunt. This is the system of justice in our country and I'm happy to let it play out. You?
     
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I don't believe that you actually need me to answer that question, do you?
     
  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    I'm not in a state of need but anticipation.
     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I hope you have fun during your visit to the state of anticipation. Right now I'm in the state of Connecticut.
     

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