How to choose an UNACCREDITED school?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by LearningAddict, Sep 4, 2020.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    So, companies that hire senior IT professionals from CalTech and MIT are immune to data breaches/hacks?
     
  2. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Sounds like what a group of my ex-girlfriends would say...
     
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  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    LOL!!! Oh lord, lol!

    Uh, Max, is there any chance you might, you know, chime in on the thread subject?
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Of course not -- but they are, I think, at least somewhat less likely - with computer security professionals on-the-ball, instead of amateur virus-mongers from Inebriated State. Maybe TEKMAN could tell us for sure. He's a competent computer security specialist -- with good degrees and the required Professional Certificates. He's in the best position to judge.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I just thought of something here, Chris. I was making remarks critical of a company that hired a senior data security executive with Breyer State, not an accredited school, on his CV. I just want to be sure you know that Breyer State is NOT a "State University" as you or I might define it at DI. Never was, It is a "school" that has been cussed and discussed for 18 years now on this forum. It's never had CHEA or USDoE-recognized accreditation and has been called a degree mill more often than I've been called ... anything. Just in case you've been too busy with your studies at properly-credentialed schools to know Breyer State's history - in three states and a foreign country - here's a capsule.

    It started on a Native Reservation in Idaho - perhaps the thought was that it was beyond the White Man's law, even though neither the owner nor his wife were Native Americans. It relocated to Alabama in the days of easy licensing. until Alabama declined to renew licenses for unaccredited schools. Breyer State then moved to California. This was in the "Sunset" phase of the BPPVE, so there was no agency there to supervise unaccredited schools. When the BPPE - the new agency tasked with unaccredited schools - was convened, Breyer State hung on for a while, then moved to Panama. I guess BPPE approval (which had been applied for) was not forthcoming. After Panama, it returned to Idaho - but not the Reservation. From thence to Florida, it appears - and it seems to have morphed into a religious school of sorts. Half a dozen "Ethereal" degrees - business, spiritual counselling, etc. are available. Perhaps they have "Ethereal" accreditation. :) The last "accreditation" I remember was Central States Consortium - which sounds impressive and RA-like, but was a creation of the owner(s) of Breyer State. I believe only Breyer State and one other school were ever accredited by this "Consortium", which has disappeared long ago.

    By now, I think you've got the drift. I wasn't slagging State Universities at all. Just this one school - that isn't a "State U." as we know them. And I repeat - I don't expect all companies to hire their IT experts from MIT, CalTech or the VERY few schools of that caliber. But they should stick to schools known to have proper accreditation etc. - which real "State Universities" all have. It's not a cure for all data breaches - but it's a darn good dose of prevention!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Here's a Wiki on Breyer State - and a link to where its one-time "Accreditor," The Central States Consortium's webpage has been archived. The Consortium doesn't seem to have an active web-presence any more.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breyer_State_University
    http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/oregon_north_dakota/breyerstate/aihcp_csccs.htm

    And here's a link showing the Central States Consortium on a list of unrecognized accreditors.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unrecognized_higher_education_accreditation_organizations
     
  7. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I do know that Breyer State is an unaccredited school. The point I was trying to make is that degrees and professional certifications are not always indicators of competence. One can have no degree and excel in their field more than someone with an MIT or CalTech degree. Sometimes people just get a degree to check a box but they are already experts in their field.
     
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  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Applicant with zero qualifications - better than MIT or CalTech? It's BARELY possible, I guess - then, just about anything is. Outliers and exceptions (this big?) arise, but most companies go by the degrees and professional certifications, because they're somewhat like insurance against incompetence. Not foolproof - but the best known defense. In general, I'd think VERY carefully before making even ONE such hiring decision with lack of recognized qualifications. The person could easily be in charge of millions of dollars in assets. Not to mention ALL computerized records - and communications - and confidential records -and the safety thereof. This is NOT the guy on the loading dock!

    Possession of unrecognized qualifications, like a degree that's bogus, or at best of very dubious standing? No - that's out. Why take a risk that big? The person has proven him/herself dishonest, and it may well be coupled with incompetence. Disastrous combo. I'd figure in that case the HIRING manager just might come to the attention of the FIRING manager. But maybe that's just me.... some people like risk more than I do. I wish them luck. Brrrr. I've been retired 27 years and it still gives me the shivers.

    Wonder what our HR and hiring people on the board think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  9. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Hiring is not my concern. I'm talking about skills/competence. I'm sure that I'm not more competent than a police chief with a high school diploma simply because I have an undergrad and a graduate degree in criminal justice. So, the guy with a Breyer State unrecognized degree (or no qualifications as you may call it) can absolutely be more competent than an MIT graduate. These degrees don't mean you know crap. Anyone can earn almost any degree if they apply themselves. On the job training, IMO, is where the real skill development takes place.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    In most cases, if you haven't earned the degree, employers will not let you access the job so you can get any on-the-job training. And for many jobs, that's exactly the way it should be. That's important and expensive stuff the untrained new employee - with no documented background knowledge - could mess up. Could be insurance, liability concerns etc. Even if not, it's like a slap in the face to people who have gone to a lot of study and work to qualify and are shut out by some un-or-underqualified "renegade genius" who very possibly isn't - could be a con-man, a poser. If you add bogus or patently iffy qualifications to the mix, there's dishonesty, too. A huge risk.

    It's a VERY rare case when a "self-taught genius" should get to make an end-run around a large number of applicants with desirable qualifications . Flies in the face of common sense, to me. @Rich Douglas, @Neuhaus - what do you guys make of this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Chris, you're a CJ man. You know exactly how that goes, I'm sure...

    I hope you're never in the position where all your customers' credit card info has gone to the Russian Mafia and your new milled-degree-holding Data Security chief is standing there with a sheepish look on his face. But that'll likely never happen. If you decide to stay in CJ, your customers will possibly have numbers, but nobody will want to steal them.
     
  12. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    OK, fine.

    If you're an advanced student or just a generally educated person who knows the score, see if you can get a book list and you can learn a lot about the program. I've done this a number of times and was able to quickly see if a school might be serious and professional or a quack nest. For instance, I was doing some curiosity research into schools teaching natural medicine. I obtained book lists from several of the more respected schools in that realm, and a few listed books from widely discredited quacks who pushed nonsensical concepts, some of which were dangerous so I knew those schools should be written-off immediately.

    That approach can be applied to other types of schools, like a business school that doesn't use typical textbooks but instead has you use books from self-help prosperity "gurus". Some schools are set up just to be a place where the founder can push his/her personal agendas. Now, that can be great if the agenda is legitimate, but if they're peddling nonsense you'll just sign up and get screwed, assuming you're the type of person who can spot BS. Sadly, schools like those can thrive because many people can't spot it.
     
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  13. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    And Apostilles!!
     
  14. newsongs

    newsongs Member

    In hiring, EQ (Emotional Intelligence) plays a role...along with your degree. Of course, skill comes in handy too. :)
     
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  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I learned this lesson back in the 90s myself. I couldn't get a book list beforehand, but the school sent the books in a big box. They were all bull. I only lost a small registration fee once I cancelled and sent everything back.
     
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  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah - I once signed up for a Mortuary Science course with a school that turned out to be bogus. Wow, HUGE postage bill to send those two coffins back!
     
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  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Too bad. I heard there was a waiting list for that course. People were just dying to enroll.
     
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  18. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I have never met anyone who said "I want to go earn a degree from an unaccredited school."

    While we're on the subject, I've never met anyone who said "I want to go earn a degree from an accredited school."

    You say "I want to study psychology" or "I want to study music" or whatever, then you find a school that meets your needs. As an 18 year old whose parents didn't want him to move away, that limited my options to a fairly small geography and where I chose what I felt was the most prestigious among them; the University of Scranton. My first choice had been Rutgers, but as my family lacked NJ residency this seemed ill advised (though, in retrospect, I paid more for less of a name).

    So it's sort of a non-starter. No one is saying the thing that this hypothetical starts out with. Now, if you said "I want to study X and I found Y school that offers the program" I think you should be evaluating the whole school and the programs therein. On these boards we easily revert to "It's RA so it's perfect!" But if you're studying religion and intend to work in ministry, as we all know, denominational acceptance is far more important than RA or ATS. You can have a Baptist M.Div. with bulletproof accreditation that won't take you far enough toward your goal of becoming an Episcopal priest as some unaccredited, non-degree study through an Episcopal diocese might. That's just the reality of things.

    If you find an unaccredited school that will help you achieve your goal then I think it's fair game. I don't think this unicorn can be found easily, though. If it requires a license the degree needs to qualify for the license in the place where you want to work. Full stop. Accreditation be damned, if it doesn't meet this requirement it's a bad choice. If you need a denomination to accept it then, as before, that is paramount above all accreditation. Beyond that, I cannot imagine a program that is only offered by an unaccredited school at this stage of the game. Back when DL wasn't as popular? Sure, I can see it. We see it a lot with those incarcerated who earned advanced degrees through correspondence before such was really an option for them. Now, though? There are accredited schools doing all of these things.

    Faculty can have crappy credentials but if that degree helps you get to your goal, so be it. Schools with bad reputations help people achieve their dreams every day. But if your degree doesn't qualify you for the job you want, it's a waste.
     
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  19. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Since 1997

    And Viqas Atiq

    700-900 universities, possibly 4,000 websites in total, including fake accreditors, theses and essay sites, feeder sites like affordabledegrees, the fake mobile app sites, etc, etc.
     
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  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    ..And still not in jail? That outfit obviously has enough money to bribe every judge in Pakistan. Thanks for the update - nice to know the Pakistani authorities are working so hard on it. Strange - Umair Hameed is the only guy who's been to an American jail for Axact-related stuff. I wonder why just him -- .
     

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