Grupo Tarraco Formacion or oh no, not another Master Propio stuff

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Mac Juli, May 28, 2021.

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  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    MCA is junk. It provides a no validation because there is no transcript. There is nothing official there. People listing that probably don't know better.
     
  2. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    What is CIAC accreditation? It doesn't seem to be a DOE/CHEA-recognized accreditor. Is the idea that ENEB gets validated by MCA which is accredited via a partnership with Humboldt who has accreditation from CIAC who is a recognized accreditor somewhere in the world? It seems to me if a US school that has options for local accreditation (versus needing an Act of Parliament or something for degree-granting authority like in some countries), they have no excuse for not seeking it out except that they know they don't qualify.
     
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    CIAC is recognized nowhere. It's junk, too. Some international programs make the mistake of applying the way their country's systems operate to our system and that seems to be the case with the MCA situation. In many places, just being registered in a state is enough to be legitimate, or just having a degree that has some other form of 3rd party validation (Apostille, Notarization, etc) is enough without a transcript, but neither are the case in the United States.
     
    sanantone and Dustin like this.
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I complete one from Nebrija University. The main limitation is the lack of transcript. Only few foreign evaluation firms accept evaluations with no transcripts. ENEB provides transcripts but they don't come Isabel. The CLEA degree also has no transcripts.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Apostille works in some countries but with the proliferation of fake universities in the US, it is becoming less credible. In some places like the UK, you cannot get an apostille of a fake university but in the US is quite simple.

    I agree. Most propio degrees have no transcripts but just a description of the content in the back of the diploma. This makes it hard to get it evaluated. Isabel has their own official degrees, those probably come with official transcripts. I think the idea of propio degrees is quite new in the US. In Canada, some foreign credential evaluation services do not evaluate propio degrees from Private Universities. ECE in the US evaluates propio degrees as credits but your degree needs to have a CVRS code for validation.
     
  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    San Jorge University will submit their own transcripts from the propios they certify for 75 euros. Do you know of any others?
     
  7. manuel

    manuel Member

    Most of them are on-campus. However, they have some online programs. For example, this one on Applied Statistics is virtual. The problem is that I would not recommend it for somebody that is not fluent in Spanish because it is a real degree with a final capstone and a presentation at the end. Also, you could find other online programs from other universities and you are really interested.
     
    Dustin likes this.
  8. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I wouldn't go there.
    MCA Business School is worthless.
    Humboldt is worthless.


    When I dared to mention MCA to Western Governors University , they said : "I'm sorry to inform you that that school is illegitimate and appears to be a fraud".
    When a university says that straight out like that, you know that that won't fly well if you use a degree like that for professional reasons.
     
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    If it's a video presentation you could always add captions in Spanish.
     
  10. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    It's good to see one school's honest and accurate perspective of another school. MCA is a fraud and ENEB will get dragged down with them if they keep offering them for validation. ENEB should partner with other foreign private or public universities that are accredited like we see with other propios discussed here.
     
  11. manuel

    manuel Member

    I still wouldn't suggest it. The same applies to a person from a country that English is not the first language, to take graduate courses without passing the TOEFL. Google translation does not work for graduate-level courses where you have to interact with other people, write quality papers, and do assignments. Also, the courses are completely in Spanish so I don't see anybody passing the first course in Statistics just by translating the content on the fly.
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    There are some other good choices for translation besides Google. I don't know exactly what a Spanish statistics class would look like, and certainly there would be extreme difficulties if you couldn't write to a person who only speaks Spanish and the task called for you to have live verbal interactions. But English speakers have been known to use translation systems for foreign studies that didn't require that. A few have mentioned doing it in these propio discussions before, but I assumed those classes were entirely online with no group projects. Some propios do have a thesis requirement, and even a published work requirement (see Formacion Alcala), but I'm not sure if that's done entirely by text or if there is an oral communication requirement.
     
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  13. manuel

    manuel Member

    Please remember that this is a more rigorous academic setting. You will be getting an official degree that was authorized by the Spanish government. This is not a propio degree designed by a business wanting your money and that might not even really grade your assignments. Even native speakers (any language) cannot take and pass graduate courses. Also, at the end of the program, you are required to do a presentation live for a committee of professors and explain your findings/capstone.
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Rigor is a big variable. But one thing is for sure, whether official or otherwise, RA or otherwise, they're all businesses, they all want your money.
     
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  15. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    What's this San Jorge Uni? And does it have English-language courses?
     
  16. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    Yeah, interested as well.
    Tell us more.
    :-D
     
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Universidad San Jorge. They offer some English-language courses but very few AFAIK. They have some propios out there all the ones I've seen are in Spanish. Formacion Alcala is one school they certify, and they (San Jorge) will send a San Jorge transcript for 75 euros.

    https://www.usj.es/
     
  18. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    It's important to point out that propios in Spain are offered by accredited and highly respected universities too, not only from schools you would classify as "businesses" which is a questionable tag in that context anyway since all colleges/universities that take in tuition and/or endowments are businesses.

    Official degrees tend to take longer because they tend to be attached to a regular mandated schedule in a more pedagogical model, but they're not automatically more rigorous than propios. In many cases the work itself is the same and pretty uniform across many schools just the way it tends to be in the United States in the RA-NA model where the public's belief of major differences is a thing of mythology. There are propios that include a thesis and/or a presentation and a submission of the written work to peer-review, it simply depends on what school one goes to. Just like in any situation be it official or propio, every schools is not equal, some are better than others, some have tougher standards than others. That's just the nature of the beast of education everywhere on the planet.

    Universities that certify propios are not in the business of risking their accreditation because the educational arm of the Spanish government does not play games, so for the most part the Universities keep a close eye on the schools they certify because they have to. There are no known widespread shenanigans of schools offering propios and not really grading assignments. One person here did mention a problem like the one you described, however, that school wasn't certified so that speaks to my point.

    Do I think people should use translation software to enter international programs? Not necessarily, and it depends. But it doesn't matter if I agree or disagree. Each person has to make the choice that best suits them and many people do it and make it work. There are also many people in the United States who speak Spanish or can at least read it, so for them it's not a worry unless a person can't and live communication is necessary for the program, but that's not the case with the overwhelming majority of online programs to begin with.
     
  19. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    So the first problem there is that much of what they've been known to offer in English is more seminar-like and doesn't lead to a degree. Secondly, while San Jorge will send a transcript, they don't particularly like to mail them to international locations and will try to get you to take an electronic version which may or may not work well for a student where a paper version is needed. This isn't just because of what's happened with the virus situation either, this has been a deal with them for a while according to information I've read. Some students have complained about this through Formacion Alcala, but that's not FA's fault. FA sends the request and it's up to San Jorge to process it. San Jorge has been known to take their sweet time. Sometimes too sweet, but to be fair San Jorge isn't the only school in Spain where that scenario has been known to play out and when you don't actually live there the priority seems to be lowered.
     
  20. manuel

    manuel Member

    I think that you should understand the context of my reply. I was comparing a public university to places like Tarraco Formacion for example, it is comparing a public university to a business school which is usually a business providing continuing education. We all know that universities in Spain have propios degrees too, and some propios include a thesis and a presentation. But, I also think that we are arguing for the sake of arguing. Saying "Hola" is not the same as taking classes in Spanish (watching videos, live online classes, writing graduate-level papers, interacting with classmates and professors, etc.). At the end of the day, it was just my opinion as a Spanish speaker giving advice. You take it or leave it. Nothing to argue about. :emoji_slight_smile:
     

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