Foreign DL Graduate Degrees

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Filmmaker2Be, Jun 8, 2020.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    We'll see. I hope what you were told on the phone reflects on the report. It doesn't always, as Neuhaus reminded us. Evaluators are all different. Obviously, the Canadian eval. Neuhaus got doesn't consider the program equivalent to RA. I say it's still a gamble - but go ahead if you think it's worthwhile. It's not a fortune at stake here. I just don't think the $8400 "former price" tag is anywhere near realistic. $249? People pay that for nice wall-hangers. Maybe you get that - maybe you get more. Let us know.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    As I said, people pay $249 for nice wall-hangers. But they don't have to put ...what? A year's homework, I'd guess, into them. That makes it a pretty expensive wallhanger if it turns out not to get you where you wanted to go. Yes - you can afford to gamble $249 but can you afford the opportunity cost - the value of your time - if it doesn't work out as you hoped. Something to think about...
  3. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I haven't decided to do this program yet but have being reviewing everyone else's input about it. Also, the Foreign Academic Credentials Service has negative reviews so I likely won't go with them anyway. Hopefully someone gets an evaluation, preferably from WES, soon. Although, with the price of this degree, it will likely get backlisted as Universidad Isabel I / ENEB will likely start awarding too many of them.
  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    But that's because it's not RA, it's NA, and I'd imagine they're aware of the RA-NA situation in the U.S., so I would think anything coming from the U.S. that's not RA would automatically be evaluated as not equivalent even if they couldn't justify it beyond that if pressed.

    It's still full price of about 7-8 grand if you live in a locale without a Groupon type of company or you sign up without knowing about one. But the price doesn't mean much. Whether one pays $8400 or $249, it's still the same independent study program. Problem there is, they may have enrolled too many, and that's where the house of cards could start to fall as they won't be able to serve everyone.
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I think the average person looking into this wasn't ever going to spend the money to get a Masters in the United States which as we know costs many times more than this program does when factoring in the discount. Most people are satisfied with having made it through to get their undergrad and will never go back for a Masters for a numbers of reasons, price being a major one.

    At the end of the day, it's a degree awarded by an accredited University. If a person is planning to go into a Doctoral program with it, then there will be problems because ours and Spain's systems don't perfectly align and I'd expect problems without a foreign evaluation as well, but the chances are slim that many people from this ENEB program were ever going to go into Doctoral study anyway. For most of them, this is "it". Heck, the Bachelors they came in with was "it" until this deal came along.

    Note: I know some in the program have grad degrees, but I'm talking about the majority that would be coming in as undergrads.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's not NA in the US. It's not anything in the US unless or until a US evaluator says it is. People here have jumped on a term - interpreted the Spanish status as "NA" - because it is approved by Spanish Gov't to award these degrees - although these degrees are less-than-full-mainstream standing in some ways. That does NOT make them "NA" in the American sense and I doubt the competent Canadian evaluator that Neuhaus consulted would agree that they are "NA" as you see it. Canadians know full well what NA accreditation is in the US. It means accreditation by one of a specific list of agencies and this school is not NA within that meaning.

    Yes - in Spain. And it carries restrictions. But over here, it's whatever an evaluator says it is. We'll see what that is - when it happens. Who knows - someone may even decide they're equivalent to NA - or not
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    OK - but I'll go even further. I say the price doesn't mean anything. At $8400 the degree is ridiculously overpriced - so the original price has no meaning. $249 is a relatively insignificant sum - no real meaning. Most DI readers would not even look at this for $8400. They WILL look at $249. Why some have to persist in conning themselves into believing that they are actually getting a program worth $8,400 is beyond me. Pride I guess - they have to regard themselves as savvy bargainers. I think that's what the folks at ENEB want them to do.

    I say - accept the fact you're gambling $250 on a degree with restrictions - you might be pleasantly surprised or it may be problematic. In no case will you end up with a credential with market value anywhere around $8400. The year or so of work you do to earn it is worth far more than the $250 cost . You should weigh that fact and factor it in carefully before you decide. The cost is insignificant, the original price is a phantom -- but the effort is real, real-time and valuable.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
    Mac Juli likes this.
  8. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    ...also known as opportunity costs, a concept that is generally sorely neglected, especially in decisions about online degrees...
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. As I said earlier, a few posts back: "Yes - you can afford to gamble $249 but can you afford the opportunity cost - the value of your time..."
    (Both emphases mine - J.)

    I tired. Me go nap now? :)
    Mac Juli likes this.
  10. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Seems I am already asleep, wasn't aware any more of this. GN8 (German net slang for "Gute NACHT", or good night)!!
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Citation needed.
  12. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    Just an assumption, not a declaration of blacklisting Universidad Isabel I / ENEB. They had some accreditation issues according to a source from this forum due to enrolling too many students without having enough teachers. I don't remember where on here it was posted.

    I have heard of other foreign schools that were blacklisted by foreign equivalency companies for the over awarding of degrees. Some Costa Rican and Mexican schools were on that list.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Interesting! I have NO trouble thinking of some likely Costa Rican and Mexican schools for that list!
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Carlton - I think the ENEB/ISabel I news may be somewhere on the sister site - DF. They have a TWENTY-THREE page thread on ENEB/ Isabel 1! (We'll get there yet - possibly)

    I note something else over at DF - the actual degree certificate is issued by ENEB - validated by U. Isabel 1. I'd much prefer a U. Isabel 1 degree myself. That's a University -this ENEB place is not - it's a private business school. Sure it can award degrees under Spanish law but it might mean a big difference in an evaluator's opinion. Do they have to accept U.Isabel's validation? The place issuing the degree isn't even a University. It's a private business school. I'm sure its degrees are legal in Spain but as I keep saying -we're not in Spain! Degrees awarded by a school other than a university might present problems to an evaluator - even if a University goes to bat for it.

    This issuance by one body and validation by another can be dicey. It puts me in mind of an old horror-story. Not an Indian one this time. US and UK. About 20 years ago, a large Bible School in the Midwest had a validation deal with U. Liverpool. How was it shown? Bright yellow U. Liverpool stickers were added to the degree certificate issued in the US school's name. The joke persisted for a long time. Eventually, the scheme was dropped. IIRC that Bible school had another British endorsement that lapsed, followed by an unsuccessful attempt at RA , then a validation scheme by the U. of Wales consortium that imploded after U. of Wales affiiated uni's validated over 200 overseas programs without proper oversight (remember Fazley College and the Cambodian supermodel!) That fiasco was followed by a failed attempt at NA. Last we looked The Bible School of Yellow stickers was in foreclosure and the buildings were being sold. You can put "yellow stickers" into the search thing here on DI and get the whole story.

    My point: The yellow Liverpool validation stickers were treated as a joke. Nobody wants to be part of a joke. See if they will give you a look at a sample of the actual degree diploma/paper you will be receiving. You want to see all the names of schools and how they appear. No stickers, please.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  15. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I agree with all of this. Though I would just add that a good many employers just don't ask for evaluations as long as the degree "seems" legitimate and fits an overall image for the person. If I show up in stained sweatpants for an interview then my claim of having a PhD from Oxford will be viewed with skepticism. If I'm a well polished gentleman claiming a Masters degree from a British school that fits in with the rest of my career as I've presented it, people will tend to feel more relaxed about my claims.

    I'm not going to say that no local or state government requires evaluations, but I will say that a good many of them do not. A good many of the same don't even do any meaningful verification of claimed US degrees. Realize that working for, say, "The State of New York" is not some monolith. It's a network of loosely affiliated agencies some of which delegate a wide degree of control and judgment to local hiring managers and HR people. So you can apply for a job that the state says you absolutely, 100% require an RA bachelors degree but when you go in for the interview at the Jamestown field office, they just hire you on the spot because they like the cut of your jib.

    It happens. A lot. That's why we see so many people with mill doctorates in school districts. That's bad for keeping cons out of these jobs. But it's also great for the earnest job seeker who earned their NA degree in good faith and doesn't want to fall into an RA/NA debate. I'm not saying we should all delight in lax hiring standards, but we should be aware that they exist. The simple reality is that if you avoid setting off red flags with an employer you may never need a report from WES, let alone worry about how they would treat your degree. My first two employers out of the Navy, very large and well respected firms in my industry, do you know how they verified my degree? They asked for a photocopy of my diploma. Not my transcripts. The diploma. The thing that would be easiest for me to fake if I had Microsoft Word and a decent sense of font usage. That was their proof. At my current company, again an industry leader and a Fortune 100 company, if your job requires a state license and that state license requires a degree, we verify the license and not the degree. Which also means if your job requires, say, a P.E. license that's what we verify. We don't pay attention to your claimed PhD or anything beyond the license. And we're not alone in that. Now, if it came to light (as it has) that you were lying about an advanced degree you'll get fired. But we're not going to jam up the hiring pipeline verifying degrees where we, frankly, don't need to.

    All of this is to say, once again, that the majority of the world pays far less attention to this topic than we do. Please remember that as you go off into the world.
  16. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't see it as NA. I was talking about Neuhaus' UMT degree which is NA, I believe that's what he was referring to as I don't recall him ever mentioning having a degree from Isabel. Of course an Isabel degree wouldn't be NA or RA since that system doesn't exist in Spain (or anywhere else AFAIK).

    I always thought U.S. evaluators only assessed foreign degrees based on whether or not they are equivalent to RA?
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure ANY of that will come true if your diploma is from Spain - or most other foreign countries.
  18. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    You have a right to your opinion.

    I'm not in the program and have no dog in that fight, I'm just not willing to downgrade a degree from an accredited University located in a major country that far because of a price. Although, I will agree that most DI readers wouldn't consider it at $8400, that doesn't mean it wasn't or still isn't worth $8400 given that a price that low is common outside the United States, and the same arrangement (dual masters) in the United States would cost much more. I know the counter to that would be "well, the U.S. program would be accredited here so that makes it a better situation right there", sure, no argument. However, just seeing how often people get hired with unaccredited degrees that aren't accredited anywhere on earth, and degrees from schools that don't even exist, I see little reason to worry much with this. When I was a regular employee, every company I worked for had tuition reimbursement and the only requirement was that the school was "accredited", some even wrote "nationally accredited" but it was obvious that the people who wrote it didn't fully know what that meant. With these companies, it didn't matter where on earth the school was accredited as long as it was "accredited". I know three of the companies I worked for haven't changed a word of that policy after all these years.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think you're right --- my bad. I did, however ask a NACES-member firm today if they ever equate a foreign degree to U.S. NA status - via their chat facility. I was told simply "we will find the closest equivalency." That ambiguous answer makes me pretty positive you're right and my statement is wrong.

    The degree is not awarded by the University. It's awarded by ENEB - they say so in their material. ENEB is a private business school legally empowered in Spain to award degrees of a type that carries restrictions. The University doesn't issue the degree. It validates it. I'm not sure if that's enough oomph to sway an evaluator. One evaluator has been quoted in this thread, saying " we will evaluate the degree as equivalent to RA if the Diploma is awarded by the University and the transcript is issued by the University." ENEB says it awards the diploma - and I believe you do all work through them, so likely they do the transcript as well .. so who knows what an evaluator will say to that? I have suggested to prospective students that they ask to see a sample of the diploma - to see what institution(s) is/are named.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    The information I've read has shown that:

    - ENEB awards a diploma with its own insignia
    - Isabel awards a diploma with its own insignia
    - ENEB handles physical transcripts
    - Isabel gives graduates an electronic verification system to confirm their status

    ... I was told that by ENEB themselves by email back in April. It was confirmed by a graduate with screenshots at DegreeForum: - Post 130 and post 132
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