Foreign DL Graduate Degrees

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Filmmaker2Be, Jun 8, 2020.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not trying to rekindle an argument here - but I found what I consider to be a good article from an International source on Master propio degrees. It's in English.
    https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spain-understanding-and-evaluating-the-titulo-propio/

    It repeats much of what's been said and generally agreed to. If you're actually going to need an American evaluation, there's one statement here that makes me wonder what an evaluator might say:

    "Titulos propios are not considered part of the formal higher education structure as they do not have academic recognition of the MEC." (That's the Ministry - J.)

    So, if they're not part of the structure, is an evaluator going to even look at it? I dunno. Only restrictions in Spain - as you all say, Government jobs and PhD studies. And you don't necessarily need a bachelor's first -whatever the institution allows is fine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  2. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    You need different versions of your resume for different things. If you're trying to get a job in the aerospace industry, put your Astronomy and Astrophysics master's degree on your resume. But, if you also plan to apply for jobs in the finance industry, for example, you would NOT put your Astronomy and Astrophysics degree on that same resume. You would have a second resume that specifically targets the finance industry, and on that resume you would list your MBA (if that's one of the propio degrees you're getting), or certifications or coursework in business and finance.

    The only time all of your degrees should go on the same resume is when they all are useful for the job you're trying to get. If that's not the case, you should have multiple resumes that target the different industries you're trying to get a job in.

    For example, I'm going to get a MBA and a Masters in International Trade from Isabel I. The MBA can go on every version of my resume, regardless of what industry I'm targeting employment in. Why? Because the MBA is a business degree and, literally, every company is in business. My international trade degree will only be useful for jobs that relate to international trade, import/export, and logistics so I would only put it on resumes that targeted those areas of industry. Do you see what I'm saying?

    Also, your masters degrees won't make people think you're an expert in those areas. That expectation doesn't usually kick in until you earn a PhD. You will be expected to know more about the subject than most people, which won't be a problem if you don't go through the program at super speed. The faster you do the program the less of the subject matter you're likely to retain for the long term.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    A bit naive, it is worded like this because ENEB people are incompetent or because Isabel does not want to take accountability?.

    You mentioned that University standards across nations are different. Yes, in the US an accredited University can grant any degree covered in the scope of their accreditation and be accredited, in Spain is not the case. The government of Spain is the only one authorized to grant official recognized degrees, not universities. Official degrees are granted by the king directly and not Universities.
    Propio degrees are legal but not considered equivalent to official degrees, they are not recognized in the European Union outside Spain and not recognized for professions requiring an official degree such as lawyer, MD, etc. So in a way, they might be closer to an state approved degree than a RA degree as they lack recognition by the minister of education of Spain.

    You also mentioned that because the degree is granted by a recognized University is valuable. My question here is, is it a granted degree by Isabel or just a certification? The wording suggests that it is not a granted but just a certification. You see, the University of Toronto issues certificates for a small fee that certifies my foreign degree as legit but it does not mean that it is a degree of the University of Toronto. Certification and Granting degrees are different things, degrees are normally voted by a faculty of a university and this is stated in the paper diploma of most universities but this ones just states "certified".

    Again, a simple 100 bucks investment would solve the matter.
     
  4. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    No. You write the name of the degree and the university that awarded the degree. For example:

    Masters in International Trade - Universidad Isabel I de Castilla, Burgos, Spain
     
  5. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    I'm just responding to you, LOL. For my needs, I don't need for it to be NACES evaluated. That it's a legal masters degree in Spain is enough for me. Obviously, it won't meet your requirements, but your requirements and purposes for getting a masters degree have nothing to do with me. To each his own.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    An official degree is expensive for an international student as it requires PhD faculty, accreditations, etc. Propio degrees came mainly to fill the gap of continuing education at a low cost. The government recognized the need for this type of degrees and are allowed but you cannot practice a regulated profession with a propio degree. If I have a Master of psychology propio, I cannot practice psychology in Spain for example.

    People here argue that a University Isabel 1 propio degree is better than an UNEB degree because the latter is not accredited. The reality is that the Spanish law allows both degrees to be valid because both are unaccredited but legal.

    At the eyes of an American, the University Isabel 1 degree has more value because it is formally recognized by the government of Spain but the degree is unaccredited. However, for an American, an Accredited University can grant accredited degrees but it is not the case in Spain.

    Propio degrees are still not known in the US but eventually foreign credential evaluators will catch up. I tried to get a formal evaluation from the UK government for my propio degree and it came back as unaccredited and not recognized in the UK. So the argument that these are international recognized qualifications is not valid.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I apologize, it was not a personal attack. The original OP was concerned about NACES foreign evaluation report and for this reason we triggered this interesting 10 page discussion. It is good, because a lot of people will have questions about this type of degrees and the thread will help them.
    Yes, it is a perfect valid of learning at a reasonable price and it is ethical and valid to list it on a CV as it is.
     
    Filmmaker2Be likes this.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I fired up my search engine, dragged the net and found there's a holy boatload of titulo propio degrees available! Wherever Spanish is spoken, practically.
    Maybe we need a titulo propio forum. Caramba! Sapos, culebras y cocodrilos!
     
  9. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    Who is making that argument? I didn't, and I don't remember seeing anyone else making that argument, either. You're very invested in arguing a point that nobody else is making. What I said is that the degree is a legal masters degree in Spain, and that is true. I don't care that it's not at the same level as a Master Oficial degree and I don't care about the restrictions on its use in Spain. I don't live in Spain and those restrictions don't apply to me.

    I just want a masters degree and I don't have thousands to spend, so this program fits the bill. That's what everybody has been saying in one way or another. And those of us who are doing the program keep saying that its status is fine for our own individual purposes. That should be ENOUGH. It's not your life and it's not your time that is being spent getting the degree. It's ours, and only we get to say whether it's good enough for us or not. You are way too intense and come across like you want to control what other people do. It's one thing to have an opinion, but you're going overboard and doing the most. Kindly back off.
     
  10. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    Don't talk to me or address me again.
     
  11. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    Understood. You're a bit intense, though. Most everyone I've seen who is pursuing the program understands what its weaknesses are, and we're still going for it. I didn't mean to sound harsh in my earlier response. I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. Just lighten up a little bit, okay? :D
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Will do.
     
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  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The price of the propio degree is attractive and I think it would be a good idea to have a thread about this. There are limitations and advantages but it would be good to share info about this type of degrees. I have used Euroinnova, it has a large variety of degrees at low price but not as low as ENEB.
     
    Johann likes this.
  14. Filmmaker2Be

    Filmmaker2Be Active Member

    And, I'm going to take my own advice and lighten up.
     
  15. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    Did you find any doctoral titulo propio programs too? The only one's I found are from Ucn and Uni Azteca but In don't speak Spanish so maybe there is more?
     
  16. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That's a great point. Given that we're looking at this mainly from an American perspective in terms of what an American can do with the degree, I can see equivalent restrictions. For instance, there are American Masters degrees in Psychology that won't prepare you to meet the licensing requirements for practice in a given state, we even have Doctorates like that. We've discussed both at different times over the years. I remember a spirited debate about that very thing last year.

    That is a good thing to bring up because the American understanding and situation differs from Spain when it comes to this specific thing, but there is one big similarity. As you know, in the U.S. accreditors approve degree programs before they're offered to the public. In Spain, propio programs don't go through that sort of process. However, in Spain, accreditors and government still have some power over propio programs in an indirect way. I can't remember now which school this happened to in Spain, but apparently they had their accreditation threatened and there was some kind of government involvement because of how they were handling a degree program and it was a propio program. The school cleaned it up. So even though the accreditor doesn't approve the propio program and it's not registered with the RUCT, the authorities still can exercise some power over those programs by threatening accreditation revocation or other penalties.

    Through the American lens, we automatically consider a degree from an accredited school as valid and accredited because accredited U.S. schools offer degrees that have been approved by an accreditor. Going back to my earlier example, Spanish accreditation and government can assert some authority over the propio programs, but it appears that this only happens when something has gotten out of hand. Of course, that's not far off from the way U.S. accreditors step in when an approved degree program has gone haywire. So if you think about it, the situations aren't really that different, it's just that in the U.S. that arrangement is official and routine while in Spain it's only activated by some kind of major issue within the program.

    I can't speak for the expectations of all others here, but I personally wouldn't expect it to get a favorable evaluation everywhere in the same way that I understand NA degrees aren't recognized in a number of countries around the world. It's the just the way it is even when there is no communicated rhyme or reason, or when there is and it's ridiculous. I just accept that as it is.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I sure did. Here's a pic of one from Costa Rica. Just print your name on it, if you want (I'm joking.) :)

    This Costa Rican university has been discussed in forums before. Most consider it a mill, but there are plenty of other choices.

    There are lots more. Try Googling Doctorado como titulo proprio etc.

    Johann666 Baron zu Wurstburg und Biersaufen :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "Try Googling Doctorado como titulo proprio etc." - oops, sorry. I meant to type "titulo propio."
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It continues.

    Operating in such margins can be exhausting. I know from first-hand experience.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    But I have nothing better to do, here at der Alte Kockers Heim*. Now if I could get my teeth (if I had any) into something better (like a Montreal Smoked Meat sandwich, maybe) I could be kvetching about something important. As it is.... Oy!

    * Yiddish - yeah, you guessed right. Translates roughly as "Old Farts' Home."
     

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