Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Filmmaker2Be, Jun 8, 2020.
Thank you for the advice. You're right.
I will keep watching this thread.
That was me, I never said that I evaluated an Isabel-ENEB degree but another Master propio from another Spanish University. We can discuss this issue all we want but unless someone spends the 100 bucks to get it evaluated, we are just making assumptions.
So far what I see, it is not a masters degree granted by Isabel but ENEB (a private institution) just certified and not granted by ENEB. Master's degrees granted by Spanish Universities state ECTS earned, grade obtained, and ECTS per course in the program earned.
So according to your own statements, this is an unaccredited degree as any other degree granted by private institution. The Isabel connection is not really a granting institution but just a certifying institution .
Euroinnova degrees are different, if you notice way more expensive than the 299. I completed a certificate with them, they will issue a certificate from the University with a transcript printed in the back of the diploma with the ECTS credits earned. The name of Euroinnova is nowhere in the diploma.
I have no doubt that they will be recognized in the US at least a graduate programs.
I agree, but none of the partnership diplomas that I have seen mention that the program is taught by institution and certified by other. I have completed two programs, one a graduate certificate and the other a master, both do not mention the teaching institution and state very clearly that the senate and board of the University has granted the degree and have the signatures of dean and chancellor. The ECTS credits are spelled out by course taken in a transcript form in the back of the diploma and not just an outline as the ENEB diploma.
I think ENEB is playing a very clever game, it just pays for "certifications" to Isabel. Isabel is not granting but just certifying. The basic difference is accountability, no faculty dean nor board is approving the degree, they don't take any accountability for the ECTS credits granted, they are just saying that they feel the quality of the program is to their standards but not registered as a degree in their records.
The certification is good enough for someone that just wants to get a certificate to put in a CV to show competence but I am not sure if it can work for someone that wants a NACES evaluation to teach as an adjunct at some University.
Again, we would need to see how evaluators react to this type of arrangements.
I heard this from someone else, so maybe they were discussing your information. Regardless, like you said yourself:
That's exactly my point, which is why I'm not making any assumptions specifically about how the Isabel-ENEB program will pan out through an evaluation. My response to you was squarely focused on how you characterized propio degree programs.
Which will be strange because ENEB grants its own separate diploma. LA may be onto something regarding some wording discrepancies. When English is not your first language, you tend to not realize the gravity of how certain words that have similar meanings can hold very different weight in certain situations. So who knows, that could be an issue here.
Except those aren't my statements. I was quite clear: "A propio degree is simply a degree offered under the backing and supervision of the school only, while an official degree is evaluated/approved at the governmental and accreditor levels. Both are equally valid--provided the propio degree is from an accredited school."
Accredited school is the main object. Coursera is not an accredited school, but it handles the programs for accredited schools. The degree issued is considered valid because it is backed/certified/issued/awarded (whatever, don't want to get into semantics with that, I'll let the evaluators deal with the wording matter) by an accredited school. The wording issue LA brought up may be a weak point for ENEB-Isabel, but we'll see, we don't know 100% for certain yet how multiple services will evaluate it.
I agree with this statement. The wording of the degree might be problematic in my opinion. It is not confirming the granting of the degree and it is very confusing about who grants the degree, ENEB or ISabel or both?
My guess is that the evaluator would need to contact ENEB to clarify and as some stated here, some might say yes and some might say no. The lack of transcript is a problem. The ENEB transcript is not very useful. The outline printed in the back with no ECTS credits is a problem as it is not considered a transcript, transcripts need to state ECTS credits per course taken. Most evaluators need a transcript for evaluation, I sent the back of my diploma and it was accepted as a transcript but it had a breakdown of ECTS credits and a overall grade.
ENEB would need to adapt to the US market in the future, they might just need to add a logo with the permission of ISABEL in their transcript and this might do it.
My guess is, since this really only opened up to aggressive (relatively speaking) marketing in this part of the world in 2019, and because most people who would enter this program are unlikely to pursue a Doctorate or attempt to transfer credits anywhere else, most of what we're discussing just hasn't come up as an issue yet. There is also the positive-thinking side which would say that all of what we're discussing has been seen by evaluators and schools in this part of the globe and has consistently passed muster and that's why we haven't heard any bad reviews regarding it, but we're not that naive.
The reference to this type of arrangement are schools like Azteca Mexico. Azteca is an accredited school in Mexico that grants propio degrees based on private providers training. These degrees are now black listed by WES, I entered Azteca in their system and was confirmed that Azteca degrees were not evaluated. Maybe next in the list are UCN, Isabel, etc.
The German government is following the same trend, it does not recognized UCN, Azteca, etc degrees that are earned by distance learning through private providers but only on campus degrees.
We are entering into the unknown due to the war of international education, it is the wild west and everyone is using every trick in the book to sell a degree to the international market but then we have protectionist barriers that protect local universities that seem to be threaten by foreign cheap education. The argument is lack of standards but we know that ENEB is not any less than many of DETC options but way cheaper. Azteca, UCN and other similar schools are also doing the same thing as other schools are doing with courseera but the difference is cost, the evaluators seem to be afraid of Universities that might not like that they give equivalency to 200 bucks degrees and might just block them to avoid confrontation.
A lot of things can happen.
Wow. Ten pages about how one's degree is actually a degree (or not). And to pick up chips knocked from shoulders.
It would seem simpler to pursue one that did not invite such questions.
I agree, I was about to pay the $40 bucks and send the diploma for an evaluation and end this discussion. More time was spent that the actual cost of evaluating a degree.
After all of this and a slight moving of the needle to an accredited professional Masters as opposed to an Academic Masters, it appears we perhaps have a general consensus (at least for now). You are getting the equivalent of an unaccredited State authorized diploma with "Masters" in the title (hard to draw exact parallels between two different countries). But seriously, what was anyone expecting for $299 for two "Masters" degrees (almost hear Earl Scheib in the background).
I would say list them the way they are listed on the diploma (eg Masters certified by Universidad Isabel or whatever). If you need them for work then you probably need an Evaluation (and they may get deemed a post grad certificate). Anecdotally, people seem pleased with the learning and for 299 you can't go wrong. They have been offering this deal since at least 2019 from what I can tell online.
As for the University of Central Nicaragua (out of Berlin), here are a couple of dissertations to look at and decide whether they would equal a US PhD in Psychology.
882 Pages for a PhD in Clinical Psychology (remember weight does not equal weight).
That is EXACTLY what knowledgeable people do. In fact, there is an entire industry built around this very concept--foreign degree evaluations. It's what they do. The moment we start talking about foreign (to the US) degrees, we have to consider this question.
True. It also only applies if you're trying to use it to meet qualifications for further education in the US. I'm not doing that. For MY purposes, it just needs to be legal and recognized in the country it was conferred from. None of the rest matters.
It still has value. Isabel I is legally recognized as a university in Spain by the Spanish government. It's not the same as being from an unaccredited school that just has state approval. That's a total reach.
It's not a continuing education certificate. Wrong analogy. It's a professional masters degree that doesn't prepare you to pursue a doctoral degree. There are plenty of these kinds of degrees here in the USA and nobody is saying they're not still full master's degrees.
Don't take what I said seriously. You didn't say anything offensive, I was just teasing you. Anyway, it has been well established on DegreeInfo that the propio is not an "official" degree. Only public universities in Spain can issue official degrees. Isabel I university is a private university, so all their degrees are propio, even the ones that are not done through ENEB. And, yes, they are all still considered full masters degrees in Spain. The only restriction on them is they can't be used to try to get into a PhD program and they can't be used to satisfy employment requirements for jobs with the Spanish government. For Americans, neither of those restrictions are applicable.
So, it's really just a matter of wording because the ENEB propio degree IS awarded by Isabel I university and the degree is for 60 ECTS credits. We'll just have to share the concern about the wording with the right people and let them know that the way they have it worded will cause problems for people in the USA and, hopefully, they'll just re-word the diploma. Problem solved.
EXACTLY. But, some people just need to find a way to diminish the Master Propio degree for whatever reason.
sorry dup post
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