Doctorates Without a Dissertation. Thoughts?

What are your thoughts on a doctorate without a dissertation. I'm looking at an EdD program that doesn't have a dissertation, but instead has a final project. This project is solving a real world problem in your field (preferably current place of employment) and putting it into use. I'm a bit worried that one day when I'm applying for a higher education teaching job (my end goal) that someone will ask me what my dissertation was in and will have a negative opinion based on me not having one. What do you think?

 

I don't have an issue with it as long as the program culminates with some kind of research project requiring an original contribution to the discipline.

 

I've always held to the principle that if one feels compelled to ask if a specific school is legit or not, chances are that it is not legit.

I think we can apply the same principle here - if you feel compelled to ask if someone will have a negative opinion based on [you] not having [written a dissertation]," chances are that they will.

Traditionally, the notion that a Ph.D. requires a dissertation while an Ed.D. will accept a final project instead has been around for years. But also traditionally, an Ed.D. has been for college presidents, school superintendents, K-12 principals, and other education professionals. Today, however, it's a doctorate du jour for everyone, especially if the Ed.D. is in leadership (IMO, today a bullshit major - as others have written here on DI, everybody seems to have one).

If your goal is to teach in higher education but in a non-education field, an Ed.D. is a poor substitute for a Ph.D. If you merely have a fear of dissertations, that can and should be overcome - frankly, a dissertation is no big deal, even if you don't envision yourself as a great writer of magnum opie (the plural of magnum opus, named after a character on The Andy Griffith Show). If you go for an Ed.D., don't have a dissertation requirement, and merely want to avoid the hassle of writing one, then you don't deserve a doctorate in the first place.

 

This could be considered to be a short description of the difference between a research doctorate and a professional doctorate.

 

Frankly, Dr. Steve, this is no big deal - and I get your TV joke - but the correct plural (as you probably know) is magna opera - although sometimes, English-speakers use "magnum opuses" and nobody minds (except me.) Occasionally, someone writes "Magnum opi" which is nothing more or less than two counts of felony-incorrect Latin. Magnum - incorrect number (singular) and opi - incorrect ending for that word's proper declension. Again, hardly anybody minds - except me, of course.

Any more of this and I might have to report DI to Brother Anselm - he's Chief Scribe here at the Monastery.

 

What do you want to do with an Ed.D? That's the real question.

If your long-term career goals are to be principal of the high school or president of the community college, an Ed.D makes sense. If you want to teach full-time for a tiny private college somewhere where annually you don't make what maybe you spent on the Ed.D, then maybe OK. But if you want to teach in big university academia and get on the tenure track, very unlikely. Even in the School of Education at my university, about 85% of the tenured or TT profs have Ph.Ds, a relatively small number have Ed.Ds. And all of them have their educations from large, well-known universities. So it just depends on what you want to do with it. There are legitimate universities, some of them elite, such as Johns Hopkins and USC, that offer Ed.Ds at a distance. If you want to get into academia, I'd forget anything but the larger, well-known programs.

 

You and my father-in-law, the retired prof who made emeritus, the confirmed Latin bore. He regularly stops conversations to explain the Latin roots of the word you just spoke, or to correct you on the precisely proper pronunciation of the foreign word you just used. You learn a lot around him, but it's hard to keep your train of thought.

 

People say it's hard to keep their train of thought around me, too. But there's not much to learn, in my case.

 

Let me answer a few of the questions so hopefully you can all help me better.

1. I am not concerned about the legitimacy of the program. The university is a Tier 1 research institution, is ranked in the Top 50 of the US News and World reports for national universities, NCAA Division I athletics with a big well known name, etc. My literal only concern with the program is a lack of dissertation as it would look if I apply for university teaching jobs.

2. I'm currently a K-12 physical education teacher. I'd like to move into teaching physical education [either the science classes (motor learning, biomechanics, kinesiology, etc.) or the education classes (curriculum planning)] at the college and university level. Whether that is at a large top 50 school or a smaller state or private school is not relevant to me at this point.

 

Actually, you remind me of my father-in-law.

 

That sounds much better than some shlubby place. Ceteris paribus (a nod to my Latin bore father-in-law and our resident Latinophile Johann), I'd rather have the Ph.D, but the Ed.D. is not a knock out if it's from a good school.

 

I thought magnum opus was the name of a private detective in Hawaii.

 

It sounds like it could be a good degree to pursue. I would rather have the PhD but if the EdD is from a good university, then you should be fine.

 

Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

 

I didn't do so well in Latin.

 

Well, since the thread has already been hijacked (which I did not expect from a simple Ronnie Howard joke), here is a Latin lesson for you from Spring Awakening:

 

This thread reminds me of a fairly recent interview. Candidate comes in, hiring manager is making some small talk. Says something like "Oh, I see you went to X School! My son really liked the place but he decided to go to Penn State instead."

What followed was an awkward meandering rant about how he had been accepted to a far better school but he couldn't afford it, you see, and so he got into this program instead. Also, his dad was recovering from a heart attack at the time and he felt it would be better to stick close to home. This is for a degree that was earned 15-20 years ago.

I'm sure he meant it in all innocence. However, his almost apologetic view of his school was, frankly, a bit of a turnoff. How would you feel if you went to a doctor and made a passing comment about schooling and they responded sheepishly with how they only went to Ross because Harvard waitlisted them and their safety school was in Vermont and they decided if they couldn't get Harvard they would at least get easy access to beaches? It would be weird.

You can "normalize" a bad undergrad degree with a more respectable graduate degree. Far fewer people are going to hold that UPhoenix bachelors degree against you if you stack a University of Arizona (or a school with an even stronger brand presence) MBA on top of it. If you're uncomfortable with your doctoral program, if you won't be able to talk about your degree without shifting uncomfortably in your seat, it probably isn't the right choice.

Hell, half the reason people get away with bogus degrees is that they use them so damn confidently.

 

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I personally see nothing wrong with the degree. Although from some responses here it seems I may have inadvertently implied that I see something wrong with it. All of the classes seem interesting and the project seems like it will be fun and meaningful since it will directly apply to my current job.

My only concern was with how a doctorate that lacks a dissertation would look if I apply for a faculty position in higher education. It seems that for the most part it could hurt like a paper cut, but not like a gun shot.

I still have some time to think it over, but I think I'm going to go with it. This of course is assuming I'll be accepted. Fingers crossed.

Any other opinions are always welcomed.

 

Doowutchyalike!