Doctorates Without a Dissertation. Thoughts?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AlK11, May 29, 2019.

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  1. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I would think it would depend on whether the hiring faculty or administrator was a gun nut. But I digress, lest someone go off on a tagent about guns and hijack the thread again . . .

    If you are invited to interview for a full-time faculty position, chances are that you would be brought in to teach a sample class, much like you were evaluated in your student teaching days. At that point, you would be evaluated on the basis of:
    • Whether you "know your stuff," i.e., having a thorough command of the subject you would be teaching; and
    • Whether you can communicate your knowledge effectively, i.e., whether you're interesting and funny (when appropriate) or a total bore who would put your class to sleep.
    For a full-time position, you may also be evaluated on your publication record. Therefore, if you're merely trying to get out of the hassle of writing a dissertation, the lack of a publication record might bounce back to bite you on the ass. The old adage, "Publish or perish" is alive and well at many schools. Having said that, my take is that community colleges focus more on teaching and less on research when compared to comprehensive universities.

    A wise bishop once told me, "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." The only problem with that is that you might run into a professional bullshit spotter like me. From your posts, you appear to have solid writing skills, and that's more than half the battle when it comes to dissertations. (My dissertation took a year of solid research in conjunction with coursework, then only 30 days to write the 318-page final. If you know what you want to say, the words come easily.)
     
  2. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    Again, thank you for the response. I'm not shying away from a dissertation, it's just that the program I found that I'd enjoy from a school that I'd like to attend doesn't require one. Would it be possible to put a bandaid on the lack of dissertation by publishing some extra work? I haven't done any formal academic publishing, but I can certainly do some independent research in the coming years and try to have that published.

    A little off topic and I hope this is allowed, but as an undergrad I self published a book on fishing around the New York City area. I had a blast doing it and have had ideas for a lot more books, just haven't had the time or dedication to commit to writing another one. You can check it out here. https://www.amazon.com/Urban-Angling-Fishing-Jersey-New-Estuary/dp/1494495457/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=urban+angling&qid=1559234341&s=gateway&sr=8-1
     
  3. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Want a non-dissertation doctorate? Go for the JD!
     
  4. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    I don't want a non-dissertation doctorate. The doctorate I want is non-dissertation.

    That's a pretty big difference. I guess I have to weigh if I get the doctorate I want but without a dissertation or if I get a doctorate that I don't want as much but with a dissertation.
     
  5. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    And now, the best advice you will be given here (although Chris beat me to the punch). Disregard everyone's advice if they recommend any other degree or if they recommend a specific doctoral program.

    Then go out and do what's fun. You already have a program in mind that would actually like. You've explored both the benefits and potential consequences of that program, and apparently you still like it more than any other program. And that, in itself, makes it sound like a winner. You can change your mind at any time. But don't rely on the collective wisdom of DI for such a profound decision.

    So, have you considered the University of Phoenix? (J/K)
     
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Most people who enjoy pontificating about Latin grammar and syntax tend to be extremely UN-original thinkers. Sad to say, I'm definitely one of that crowd. Latin is a language that's perfect for sheep - those who can learn and follow rules - and actually enjoy the process.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's OK, Ted. You obviously did very well at your business studies - look at your two MBAs. And there's your encyclopedic knowledge of history. I learned a bunch of languages, some psych and other stuff -

    .... and look where our learning got us! ...Here!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Non Arizona.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Infeliciter, volumen est.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes. Formal academic publication is better evidence of research skills than an unpublished dissertation, as long as the publication venue is legitimate and peer-reviewed. Ditto going beyond requirements of your program.

    Given that your program is clearly reputable, I would not be surprised if a condensed version of your project itself will be publishable, somewhere.
     
  12. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    First, thank you for everyone who responded. I figured I'd give an update in case anyone cares. I decided to go for it. I'm starting the Ed.D program in Applied Learning Sciences at the University of Miami next month. I'm looking forward to the challenge, but my bank account isn't. The program details are in the link below if you want to take a closer look at it.

    https://welcome.miami.edu/online/programs/doctor-of-education-in-applied-learning-sciences
     
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  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Best of luck. I'm sure you'll be busy but maybe you can keep us in the loop.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The OP's situation sits with the difference between a scholarly doctorate and a professional doctorate.

    I suspect the "final project" will require comparable work, but instead of requiring significant, original contribution to scholarship (theory), it will require a significant contribution to practice.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with this, except that it does not prepare you to enter academia, instead preparing you to practice at the top of your field.

    This example also illustrates another point: the line between the two types of doctorates can get blurred. But you can count on hiring committees to make the distinction.
     
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I disagree with this for a very simple reason. We find people in academia with professional doctorates. In fact, we find people in academia with no doctoral degree at all.
     
  16. copper

    copper Active Member

    Today we see a lot more practitioner/professional based doctoral degree holders that were educated by practitioners! Academia historically preferred the doctoral professors with a solid background in research and scholarly writing. Today, the demand is for professionals to hit the tarmac running full speed ahead. What better way to be educated by someone who has been in the trenches versus a professor who knows the theory and has only talked about it?

    I can see the value in academia of having a mixture of instruction by the professional as well as the research oriented doctorally prepared professor. In conjunction with practical experience, the student needs a balance of theory, research and scholarly writing to go beyond the "monkey see monkey do" mentality. You are both correct!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
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  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Which does not contradict my point that a professional doctorate does not prepare one for academia. There are all kinds of reasons why a school might hire someone as a professor, the nature (or even existence) of his or her doctorate notwithstanding.
     
  18. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    From my experience, accounting professors that had real-world experiences were the better professors.
     
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  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    To put a slightly finer point on it, I think a PhD might prepare someone to do academic research but that has little or nothing to do with the actual teaching of courses, which is what the vast majority of students care about.
     
  20. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    I would agree with this. Would you rather have an accounting professor who spent several years as a CPA and/or a controller or would you rather have an accounting professor who did undergrad, got a masters and then went straight into a PhD without actually garnering useful life experiences in the field? I know which one I would want...
     

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