DETC Accrediting Commission Meeting - June 2008 Edition

With but a couple of narrow exceptions, one can find comparably priced RA degree programs instead of DETC-accredited ones.

The University of "Atlanta" is deceptively named.

 

The former Barrington University was purchased by a Georgia corporation.

 

Now, we have this newly accredited University of Atlantic (formerly Barrington University) and existing accredited Atlantic University. Do you think they will join hand and form the Atlantic System??? Hehe....Just like California System etc....lol

 

Except that the former Barrington is the University of Atlanta (not the University of Atlantic).

 

Oh..I overlooked it. haha..sorry!

 

That is true. I did not say DETC schools are universally cheaper. In fact, there are a few which are downright expensive. In the case of the program I an in, the price is right, the program is extremely flexible and it offers the exact program I was looking for. It was the best option for me at the time. I do plan to get my BA from an RA school (probably Excelsior). DETC schools provide great alternatives to those whose needs may not necessarily be met by an RA school.

 

Maybe so, if one's intention is to write Christian allegories, or perhaps Christian-themed fiction in general.

Nothing wrong with that, but it does kind of limit the scope of creative writing. Perelandra is a school with an agenda, one that might thrill some prospective students, while not being particularly relevant to others of us.

 

DL's been around (correspondence or London-style exam-based were popular methods) since the 19'th century. The program that I graduated from (CSUDH-HUX) was created in 1974. DETC's ridden the tremendous expansion in internet-based DL, but I don't think that they drove it.

We sometimes see schools for whom RA would probably be a stretch, going for DETC instead and getting it. Accurate or not, it creates the impression that DETC is accreditation's minor-league. There aren't any DETC public universities and we don't see substantial private universities either. DETC seems to attract small educational proprietorships. The fact that distance learning itself still encounters some scepticism doesn't help.

That doesn't necessarily mean that DETC schools provide inferior education. But it does create a perception problem.

Doctorates are a real opportunity for DETC and for its schools to address their perception problem, but I don't know if they will seize it.

What DETC needs is a few schools on its roster with powerful academic reputations. There need to be some schools that could stand alone without accreditation if need be, schools that aren't always obscure things pointing back to DETC and to its government recognition as their primary indicator of academic legitimacy. I'm thinking of examples like Rockefeller University or Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on the NY Regents' accredited list. There need to be some DETC names that suggest that DETC isn't always the B-team.

To accomplish that, DETC probably should be encouraging/requiring schools with doctoral aspirations to put in productive research units and to start churning out publications. People (faculty and graduate students) from DETC programs need to be showing up and participating at conferences. DETC programs need to be competing for grants.

There's an academic game that many RA doctoral programs play and they do it for a reason. Some of DETC's more ambitious schools need to be playing too. DETC's credibility problems will start to evaporate as soon as professionals and academics can't stay current in their subjects without encountering work coming out of DETC schools. They will have to pay attention.

 

A bridge to what Bill is proposing is something I've been suggesting for DETC: accrediting DL programs in RA schools. Or, accrediting the DL process in these schools, many of whom struggle with educational delivery, student management, financial management, marketing, training faculty, and much more.

DETC could become the leader in DL this way, instead of accrediting a bunch of schools that can't get RA (along with a few who could and one that did).

Hard to focus on, though, when so much of your business model is based on accrediting correspondence schools that teach plumbing or art school.

 

Bill I agree with you on the DETC suggestions. However perceptions may be, I find this to be a debate amongst academics and DL forums more so than the real world. I remember an HR person asking me about the accreditation of a degree listed on a resume not too long ago. She asked "is this school accredited" to which I replied yes then went on to explain DETC vs. regional accreditation (this was a DETC school) and there was a noticeable instant glazing over in her eyes. She couldn’t care less. So for the sake of expediency I just sent her a link to the US Dept. of Ed. where she could look up colleges to see if they are accredited or not and I haven’t fielded a question since then.

When transferring my DETC credits to Southwestern I spoke with the admissions people no less than 3 times asking if my credits would transfer over and each time they said “no”. When I finally applied they just looked up my schools in the US Dept. of Ed. book and accepted them anyways. The whole DETC vs. regional accreditation debate seldom occurs and when it does it serves more to confuse than enlighten, so I rarely involve myself anymore.

That being said, Texas has notoriously draconian policies regarding recognition of post secondary accreditation even to the point of criminalizing using a degree from a nationally accredited school of any sort for gainful employment. A recent Texas State Supreme Court case smacked down the efforts of the State to outlaw nationally accredited seminaries prohibiting them from using words like “diploma”, “degree”, “college” or “university” from their terminology which was very positive. In fact the state agency is about to meet again where they are expected to formally recognize the DETC after the little fiasco concerning their labeling California Coast University as a diploma mill. After which I expect the DETC vs. RA debate to cool down even a bit more. I expect shortly thereafter other state agencies in Texas will follow suit.

As for your concerns about Perelandra College I agree that they do have an agenda. But then I believe that U of Cal, Berkeley does as well so I guess this type of program just provides yet another alternative which I’m always for. I disagree that the school will limit the creativity of their students but then that’s my take. In my opinion their adherence to core values and strong ethical beliefs is more of strength than limitation. But then I would find a school like Berkeley to be stifling, so I guess it depends on the student.

 

Hmm...I just looked over the newly-approved program offerings of the DETC accredited schools, and didn't notice a plumbing degree in the bunch.

I do agree that it would be good for the DETC to accredit programs at RA schools, in much the same way that the AACSB accredits business programs. I guess the DETC would approve "bigger name" schools, if they applied, but why? What is a "big name" DL school? University of Phoenix? Walden? Capella? These are hardly the names that would lend the DETC more credibility, which I'm not convinced they need in the first place. Outside the confines of these forums, I don't see anybody knowing, or really caring, about the difference.

 

UOP may use the DETC as a back up plan if they just happen to loose RA(I don't have the facts about this, this was according to a poster at the uopsucks site that happen to work for UOP). In any event anything is possible and if they decide to cut cost then it may be a possibility.

 

what's all the hubbub bub? I remember some folks on here a while back saying if these unaccredited schools cleaned up their act and received accreditation by a recognized accreditor, then they would be acceptable. Now that some of these schools have gained this accreditation, now comes the DETC will accredit anybody. ststststst....

The DETC as we know only accredits professional doctorates and not academic doctorates, thus, I would think that if one wanted to take on educational endeavours he or she would go for a PhD and not a professional doctorate. It is my opinion that the DETC accrediting doctorates scares the hell out of some folks with regionally accredited doctorates because there will be more competition in the business place and we know what supply and demand leads to.

As long as the professional doctorate programs meet the DETC's standards and they are recognized by CHEA and the USDoE, then it's good enough for me. I remember when the Master's degree was a great achievement. Now a Master's is basically what a Bachelor's used to get you. So, folks who need the edge with more rigid professional education/training can do that by earning a professional doctorate.

 

I think by the "plumbing" comment he meant that DETC is primarily concerned with vocational endeavors, in other words, education of a workforce for reasons other than those of pure academic purpose. If that is the case then this is exactly what the DETC was started for.

However the DETC has evolved and I believe that their programs are just as academically rigorous and academically challenging as any regionally accredited program…and that’s the WHOLE POINT isn’t it folks?????

As for the DETC leading the online education charge? Perhaps not, the point was made that the HUX program has been around since 1974, well the DETC has been around in some form since 1926 and founded as we now know it in 1955, that doesn’t mean anything necessarily either way.

The point is that the DETC has impacted distance education for the better, has more than likely laid the groundwork and provided demonstrable success for distance education for even the regional accrediting agencies in some form or another. To deny their contribution, even if you cannot put your finger on their individual achievements at the moment would smack of intellectual dishonesty at best and elitism at worst.

We lambaste schools when they operate under the radar as “non-wonderful” (I love that phrase coined by Dr. Bear) or “diploma mills” or at the very, very best we are highly suspect of their intentions. Then once they do gain some accreditation by someone other than a regional accrediting agency we hem and haw about how they “settled” or were “rubber stamped” or prophesy the doom of the DETC. Well here’s a thought, maybe these schools have gained actual legitimacy. Maybe they worked hard at it, maybe they spent a ton of money and time on it, maybe they are sincere in their efforts and maybe, just maybe the whole point of their existence is to provide an education to someone out there that they just happen to fit the bill for. Maybe.

Okay I said I wouldn’t get into the debate and it looks like I did. Sorry for being dishonest but in my defense, I’m Irish by blood.

 

I know. It was a facetious comment.

 

How many state universities are exclusively distance learning?

 

If the DETC were to start accrediting DL in RA schools, do they already have the authority to do so or do they need to apply to USDE or CHEA for a change in scope of authority? If or when they have the authority to start accrediting DL in RA schools, how do you think the VP of Marketing at DETC should go about convincing the VPs of Academic Affairs at all these RA schools that they need DETC accreditation for their DL schools, especially considering that the DETC seems to be perceived as the accreditor of supposedly little second rate schools?