Can a holder of DBA use Dr. with in his name?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Tarbuza, Dec 27, 2008.

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  1. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    A few comments.

    1. The word 'doctor' is not a title of nobility. Endless arguments about which doctorates are "higher" than other doctorates reminds me of the pretensions of faded European aristocracy. (And I respond with the faint contempt that many Americans reserve for such things.) There's entirely too much ego involved with this whole doctoral subject.

    2. It's up to ME who I address as "doctor". Addressing people that way is an expression of respect and I get to choose who I respect.

    3. In most jurisdictions, use of the word 'doctor' is not regulated by law. So technically, anyone can use 'Dr' with his or her name, regardless of the degrees that they may or may not have earned.

    4. I'm inclined to think that any degree awarded by a credible institution with the word 'doctor' in its title is a real doctorate, provided that it is the degree that typically qualifies somebody to teach the subject at the university level and is the degree normally possessed by professionals at the top of their game.

    5. I don't consider the modern PhD to be the paradigm for all doctorates. Doctoral degrees have been around since the 13'th century, at least. Modern PhDs didn't appear until the 19'th century, 600 years later. If any doctorate deserves to be the historical paradigm for all of them, it's the professional doctorate.

    6. When I'm determining which doctorates I respect more than others, there's lots of variables that go into that decision -- The general reputation of the school that awarded the degree, the broad subject and specialty emphasis of the degree, the awarding department's reputation in that area, the individuals that the graduate actually worked with, and more. It's very much a matter of personal taste.
     
  2. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Really?

    'cuz it's all about the 'tude, Ab?

    kevin, anyone who thinks psychology is a "soft science" hasn't paid any attention to it in the past 20 years. (Just ask my intro psych students whose heads are still spinning after last week's intro to neuroanatomy and biochemistry.)

    And if you'd actually read posts before slinging your condescension, you'd notice that I did employ Google Scholar. I simply was pointing out that not every discussion post comes with a lit review (cf. you own post).

    Finally, leave it to a forum on DISTANCE education be snarkily dismissive of a degree earned in such a manner. (FYI - Capella is regionally accredited and if you had any knowledge of the APA accreditation process you might have an idea why its psychology program isn't yet.)

    Guess you're a believer:
    When you can't refute the message, attack the messenger.
     
  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

     
  4. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

     
  5. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    I'm not being anymore dismissive than you are. I'm not attacking you personally but I am pointing out that your posts are not debate oriented in nature, but rather argumentative. I agree that while every discussion post does not have a lit review attached we should still be ready to defend assertions empirically or state them as opinions.

    I make no distinction on the modality in which a degree is earned. But it is fair to categorize degrees based upon the program accreditation as these are the yardsticks by which to measure the program.

    And while you can defend the difficulty of obtaining APA in a distance learning program I will state that Fielding seems to have accomplished this task (to refute your message).

    Mostly I find it ironic that anyone in the field of psychology can't interact more personably, or recognize their own quote.
     
  6. BryanOats

    BryanOats New Member

    With all due respect, PsychPhD, I have no idea of the skills and techniques you acquired in your Clinical-forensic Psychology, PhD program at Capella University. But, you do seem to be a bit defensive and, as Kevin points out, you’re not very personable for someone with a PhD in Psychology. You really need to learn how to Lighten Up!


    Maybe you can begin with some research of the type you’re used to, like: http://www.wikihow.com/Lighten-Up
     
  7. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Of course the title of 'doctor' is a title of nobility! Nobility of the mind, that is.
     
  8. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Dialogue: Tony Pina & PsychPhD

    PsychPhD (bold)

    Tony (not bold)

    "Virtually every published study"? Are you serious? (Reacting to my claim of possession "viturally every published study comparing the Ed.D. and Ph.D. degrees)

    Absolutely. The research study that I am now writing on the topic of Ed.D. vs. Ph.D. currently has 40 references, which include journal articles, doctoral dissertations and conference proceedings dating from 1978-2007. Several people have published on the topic. My paper on the DBA vs PhD is not quite as large.

    I am curious who would undertake such a "study" in the first place? What would be the purpose?

    The same reason why other topics are studied: someone was interested in the topic. Also, some people are actually interested in collecting data to verify or debunk incorrect opinions, such as “there is a substantive difference between Ed.D. and Ph.D degrees in education”. Several seek justification for the elimination of a redundant degree.

    My statement is culled from reading many articles and commentaries in the professional literature.

    Mine is culled from data collected in research studies, not just people’s opinions in articles, commentaries and response postings on blog sites.

    The basis stated usually is rooted in the fact that the PhD requires a unique research study (dissertation) whereas the EdD's capstone project is usually a "literature review".

    With all due respect, the above statement is absolute nonsense. Where in the world did you get the idea that Ed.D. dissertations merely constitutes a literature review.? Dang, I could have just left out the Analyses of Variance, Cronbach’s Alpha coefficients and the Sheffe post-hoc studies and still passed my defense? Silly me.

    Seriously, Nelson & Coorough’s 1994 content analysis (published in Journal of Experimental Education vol. 62 no.2) of over 1,900 Ph.D. and (that’s right) Ed.D. dissertations awarded over 40 years found that the Analysis of Variance was the most commonly done analysis for both types of dissertations. Osguthorpe and Wong’ 1993 study of 407 institutions (published in Innovative Higher Education Vol. 18 no. 1) found that “program requirements are remarkably similar in Ed.D. and Ph.D. programs, including competencies in research and statistics).

    My favorite example was an EdD in physical education awarded on the basis of an analysis of the 3-point rule in basketball.) Most anyone with experience with a dissertation knows that a literature review is the foundation of a dissertation, not the sum total of it. The three-point rule citation actually came from a book "Dumbing Down Our Kids" by Charles Sykes

    Yes, as a former school teacher, I agree with a number of Sykes' observations about K-12 education. The book makes fun of a number of Ph.D. and Ed.D. dissertation titles (some outside of education). There are plenty of studies in virtually every discipline (including psychology) that many would find to be silly or frivolous.

    (As an aside: Having served on dissertation committees for Capella PhD learners, I can say that the Capella dissertations that I have seen thus far have been well done, so I would expect that yours would be as well. I would certainly not characterize psychology as any "softer" than most academic disciplines).

    I have no interested in engaging in a back-and-forth with you trying to validate your choice of doctoral program.

    Great...neither am I. I have no need to validate my doctorate. The three peer-reviewed journal articles resulting from my dissertation are validation enough. I will simply respond to your continued posts on this subject.

    While I regularly look to empirical data upon which to base judgments and opinions, it is important to also recognize that not every single statement comes with a literature review.

    Very true. A perusal of various online discussion boards makes it obvious that when it comes to the opinions that the Ed.D., D.B.A. or D.P.A. is inferior to the Ph.D. in the same disciplines, or that the D.M.D. is inferior to the D.D.S., there certainly tends not to be any appeal whatsoever to the literature on those topics.

    As someone who has been in and around education for 15+ years, I haven't compiled a citation list for every concept I have encountered. Sometimes one is simply aware of the zeitgeist.

    As someone who has been working in higher education for over 22 years, I have also become aware that people can form strong opinions that are unencumbered by trivialities such as research studies and data. I certainly haven’t compiled a citation list for every concept—I just happened to have done so for this particular concept.

    But, given your interest, I'll keep an eye out for articles and pass them along.

    Yes, please do—I would be most appreciative. I am always looking for more references for my study and am still searching for that elusive study that shows the inferiority of the Ed.D. based on something other than “zeitgeist”.

    Gotta love Google -- "EdD value" brought back a current debate going on the Chronicle's discussion board: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.ph...c,37397.0.html (And, yes, I know this is not an empirical source, but does add to the aforementioned zeitgeist.)

    Yes, it is evidence of how misinformed some intelligent and sincere people can be.

    Still more from the great god Google: The benchmark report, "Educating School Leaders" by Arthur Levine http://www.edschools.org/pdf/Final313.pdf

    Yes, I read Levin’s study when it came out and cite it in my own study. I support his call for the abolishment of the Ed.D. (there is no reason for two identical degrees). Levin’s report is not an analysis of the Ed.D. vs. PhD. Degree--it is an analysis of most doctoral programs (Ph.D. and Ed.D.) in school administration. It says aboslutely nothing about Ed.D. degrees in instructional technology, educational psychology, counseling or other disciplines. I agree with many of Levin’s conclusions.

    I now leave you to do your own homework.

    Thank you. I think that I have a good start with the 38 articles, but am always eager to learn more. I appreciate your thoughtful comments and I apolizine if I have come across in this text-based forum as arrogant. This just happens to be an area that I have researched for a while.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2009
  9. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    My colleague, PsychPhD made us aware that some research in physical education (such as the impact of changing the 3 second rule in basketball on the performance of college athletes) may seem pretty trivial.

    Fortunately for those of us on Degreeinfo who love such lighthearted stuff, today's Chronicle of Higher Education (a favorite of both PsychPhD and me) has shown that the discipline of education is not alone in producing research tha many of us would find amusing at best. Perhaps my favorite among this particular group come from researchers in PsychPhD's discipline of psychology who have discovered that hungry cats purr louder and and with more breath than cats that are more content. Other such "groundbreaking" studies were done by researchers in economics, medicine, biology and, of course psychology.

    I wonder what Charles Sykes would have to say about these? ;)

    Landecker, H. & Troop, D. "No Kidding: Research Results That Didn't Surprise Us" http://chronicle.com/article/No-Kidding-Research-Results/48368/?sid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en

    By the way, my undergraduate minor was psychology and my masters is in educational psychology & technology :)
     
  10. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Hello PsychPhD


    Well, after having finished two semesters of the DNP program, I will admit that this degree program has little to no benefit in making me a better nurse practitioner. I would have been better off going on to get a doctorate in business. At least it would have some utility.

    The only DNP programs with utility are the ones that add specialty training and certification such as psychiatric or geriatric NP. Otherwise, I am just spinning my wheels! Thanks for the dialogue and wake up call. Unfortunately, I have wasted a lot of money and time going in the wrong direction with this DNP stuff. Should I just finish or jump ship is the question that haunts me?

    I truely believe now the "powers that be" in the nursing profession have made a very big tactical error in mandating this degree for nurse practitioners. It has nothing to do with making one a more competent nurse practitioner. In fact, I believe it will increase the shortage of nurse practitioners because one has to weigh the time and cost of a now 4 year program versus the benefit.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Not always.

    For example if the DBA has also foreign professional degree such as Veterinary Doctor or Medical Doctor etc then in many states of USA this person if not Licensed by the appropriate board can't use the title Dr as it can be misleading
    as DVM or MD.

    For example some unlicensed foreign professionals in USA practice complimentary or Holistic medicine and maybe RN or RVT.
    If such are addressed as Dr on lets say Veterinary climic web site etc then it can mislead the public.

    There can be a problem with DCA in CA or similar in other states.

    This was actual case in NY State and my friend had to show up for inquiry.

    If the Dr. title not used in medical, veterinary or other practice then there is no problem.
     
  12. vadro

    vadro New Member

    Sorry, I don't understand where is the correlation between the DBA and Veterinary of Medical Doctor?

    originally Posted by Tarbuza :
    I know PhD can use Dr. How about DBA? Are they allowed to use Dr. ?

    The short answer is yes.
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    OK

    DBA is Doctor of Business Administration - I think its obvious that he is a Doctor.

    Only DBA who is Database Administrator is DBA who is not a doctor unless they hold Doctorate or Ph.D :)

    Vardo I meant to show that nor Ph.D or DBA can call them self doctor in specific situation.
     
  14. vadro

    vadro New Member

    Totally agree on that one, he or she is a Doctor.

    Cheers.
     
  15. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    Yup, and so can a traditional naturopath or someone with an honorary D.D.
     
  16. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    "RN" is a licensed designation in the nursing field.
     
  17. Simple rule of thumb. If the degree says "Doctor," then, one is a Doctor. Such a person can use "Dr" in thier title, if they so choose. Personally, I only use it for work and publishing. It frankly seems disturbingly out of context to meet people in a bar or a baseball game itroducing yourself as Dr. So-and-So.

    Sincerely,
    Dr. Gary Shwinn, P.Hd
    Director of Public Relations
    University of Antonius
     
  18. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    Apparently it is OK for your username on an Internet discussion board. Is it out of context to use it with your position as "Director of Public Relations" for a university that does not exist outside of your sig. line?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2010
  19. Yrrex

    Yrrex New Member

    This was the situation earlier, but is not true anymore.

    Nowadays, in Germany, accredited degrees from "accepted" countries can be used just as if they were German degrees, with no University (or other institution) name required. Admittedly, there are some slight differences across different German federal states (Bundesländer), but they concern mostly specific degrees (medical, dental, etc), or specific countries and/or disputed territories (China/Taiwan, Serbia/Kosovo, etc).

    Hence, a PhD degree holder from Australia, USA, rest of EU including UK, etc (but also Croatia, Serbia, Russia, etc) can officially call himself (or herself) Peter, Mustermann, PhD, or Dr. Peter Mustermann, as he/she pleases.

    Actually, in Germany, you can even request that "Dr." is entered in your legal documents, such as, for example, passport or ID card :rolleyes: :D
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yes, what I meant is foreign Doctors such as MD or DVM.
    If they work in the medical field "not as Dr's" and happen to hold Ph.D or DBA they can't be referred or be called Dr, not use title Dr on the business cards etc
    wile in medical establishment or offering services in medical fields.
     

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