Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Tarbuza, Dec 27, 2008.
It's never you, is it?
Nah, we'll ignore your 25 other previously de-railing comments!
That's odd! That's about how many pieces of biased misinformation you posted about nurse practitioners.
I think you suffer from, "Whose got the last word syndrome." If not, I will be glad to say it but before I go, I just wanted to say that in all fairness, this thread was beneficial for me. I have learned that there are huge Egos involved at the doctoral level and extreme biases. That's a good thing to be armed with as I start my doctoral journey and I thank you (without sarcasm) for the enlightenment.
The sadness continues
But before I go ... the irony is so deep and your self-awareness so lacking!
Sorry Delta but I actually have been in and around healthcare providing for 20+ years. What I have shared here comes from both the benefit of a wide ranging and diverse career in the industry and extensive review of empirical research.
Nevertheless, I'll just wait until you experiencing having an RN, MSW, ANP, etc. telling to you that they are just as qualified to do everything your DNP trained you to do.
Or when you are in a clinical situation and (hopefully) you realize you are in over your head and an MD's expertise really IS needed. (If you want a taste, pick up a true doctoral level professional journal. I've seen many nursing "journals" -- there's a reason physicians call them "Newsweek for Nurses").
Or when a DPT, DAud or any of the other dubious credential elevations also attempts to claim that they can do all that you do.
Payback's a ....
Oh, and just to bring it back on topic, while I'll (again) agree that one who earns a doctorate has earned the right to be addressed as "Doctor" what is the purpose of a DBA? Why is it better/more valuable than an MBA?
(Obviously people without doctorates have already been teaching MBAs).
What is the difference between an AA to a BA or a BA to an MBA? Different level and depth of understanding, etc.
Well, yes but ...
Yes, one would expect this from any advanced degree.
However, the undercurrent that seems to be bypassed isn't what a particular degree contains but whether such content is a) valuable, b) necessary, c) worthy of the extra time/effort/cost to attain. There is a question about "credential creep" where some professions have developed advanced academic degrees which are above and beyond what is truly necessary to be qualified for the associated profession.
For example, the trades (e.g. plumber, electrician, carpenter, mechanic) have gotten more technically complicated over the years. But I'm not aware of any (nevermind advancing) level of college training being advocated/required. Yes, one does progress from apprentice, to journeyman, to master but these qualifications are directly related to one's years of experience and demonstration of proficiency.
Credential creep is most commonly seen in the health professions. Case in point, twenty or so years ago, the long established means to become a nurse was attending a year-long hospital based nursing school program. Then it became a community college associate's degree. Then a university based bachelor's degree (BSN), quickly followed by the MSN which led to nurse practitioners, and (as seen above) now the DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) has been added.
And it's not just nursing; social work, physical therapy, audiology, pharmacy all have sub-doctoral academic qualifications for practice. However, they have all, over the past few years, added doctoral practitioner degrees.
If 10 years ago, a Bachelor's degree was all one needed to work as a physical therapist (or audiologist, or pharmacist, etc), why "bump" things up to a doctoral level?
Consider, lawyers have long earned a three-year Juris Doctor (JD) to qualify them to practice. Don't hear much about them: 1) insisting they be addressed as "Doctor" or 2) boosting their specialty training (e.g tax law, civil law) to doctoral level (curiously, they "advance" their training by earning Master's degrees [LLM]).
[NOTE: I am not referring to advanced degrees earned by those who focus on research and teaching. (There is a long tradition of this in academia.) And, yes, I am aware this veers from the original intent of the thread, but people still seem to have questions ....]
The obvious reason why we keep getting into pissing matches over who can be called "doctor" is just plain ignorance. The term "doctor" is Latin for "teacher." If Latin were still required in the high schools, people would know this. The title of "doctor" belongs to anyone who has completed a course of studies leading to the doctoral degree. However, because most people ignorantly assume that "doctor" means "physician," legislatures pass laws regarding who can call themselves "doctor" in a medical setting in order to protect people from their own ignorance.
The key is avoiding confusion. The term "doctor" arises from academic and professional roots. In a healthcare setting, it normally connotes a physician. (This may or may not get blurred by the new DNP, but we'll have to see.)
Other uses of the term may be misleading.
For example, a nurse with a Ph.D. would not be called "doctor" in a clinical setting. But calling him/her "doctor" when he/she is conducting a lecture would be appropriate.
To the OP's question (again): Ph.D. vs. DBA (or other doctoral designation)? All good.
Giving the thread back ...
Moving the discussion about the proliferation of new doctoral programs to:
Credential Creep: Do you really NEED that doctorate?
Well, so does the masters degree, which comes from the Latin word magister (teacher)...
However, we do not have legislators taking it upon themselves to write laws about who can call themselves "master." For that matter, I cannot even remember degreeinfo ever having had a good circle jerk thread about who should have the right to call themselves "master."
That's very true, of course, and a good thing, even though I would love to walk around being addressed as "master."
I find this thread rather appalling. Which is why I'll leave and work a bit on my lowly doctorate in linguistics. Upon completion, I'll probably walk around a hospital introducing myself as Dr. Fishy. I may even do some patient counseling or surgery.
I have students who want to call me master. I prefer the title Sensei or Sifu.
Is the title Sensei attributed to the teacher of any discipline or does it refer only to martial arts teachers? What languages are Sensei and Sifu?
In Japan, Sensei is still sometimes used to designate someone who teaches various fields such as music or philosophy, religion, etc. Sensei is Japanese, Sifu is Chinese. I am versed in in Japanese and Chinese martial arts, among others. So I can be addressed by either title. As an example, a Sifu of Shaolin Kung Fu would be addressed as Sifu rather than Sensei as his expertise is in the Chinese arts.
In ancient times, a Sensei was akin to a priest. My first Sensei subscribed to this WAY.
I will definitely keep this in mind the next time I watch Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2...
Can a DBA call himself Doctor? Yes.
Can an MBA call himself Master? I don't know.
Probably not if he is the proprietor the "Psycho" motel
I remember falling in love with a red Samurai sword in the movie, but I can't for the life of me figure out who got the sword. Do you remember?
Why could he not call himself master if he's the proprietor of the Psycho motel?
Technically, an MBA can himself Master, as long as his last name is not Bates.
Separate names with a comma.