Azteca University - International - Foreign Credential Evaluation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I'd imagine many places take electronic versions these days. It read to me like he got 5 from the evaluator since he used the word "got" rather than "made", but maybe not. I'm not sure, he'll have to be the one to clarify.

    Won't always work as it would require someone to not really look into it. Makes it a gamble. Evaluators use an ID number so that all a person needs is the name and the number to verify the evaluation. I did this when verifying John Roger's IEE evaluation of his Doctorate from UCN. Upon verification, it'll be known that the stamping is fraudulent, then you're toast.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Apparently my sarcasm went unnoticed. Of course the stamp is fraudulent and might easily be detected. My point: the evaluation process seems nowadays to be riddled with fraud --- at both ends, buyer and seller.

    Blockchain or one of the similar-aim technologies might cure the whole sideshow, given enough time. Fraud-lovers will protest, though. The rabble might storm NACES.

    "Makes it a gamble?" Ha! The whole process is a crapshoot, from start to finish. The pit-bosses are mostly dunces, rogues - or asleep. :(
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    They come with sealed envelopes. The evaluation is good as long as the envelope is not opened. They dont come with expiration dates, just you cannot get a new one after 5 years. The AICE evaluation service has them online and allows you to share it electronically with others so not all the services require you to make a new one every five years.
    I used to use them for adjunct work, the problem is that the university will keep the evaluation document and needs a sealed envelope. However, some are now allowing electronic copies shared from the evaluation service website.
    The problem is when your evaluation service changes its mind about the degree. In the case of Azteca, it is obvious that they cannot grant post doctoral qualifications officially recognized in Mexico so maybe an evaluator gives you an equivalence one year but the next it is not longer the case.
    In conclusion, it is very risky to get propio degrees. They might appear to be cheaper but my take is that most evaluation services in the future will not recognize them, at least NACES and AICE evaluation services.
    Azteca is overselling its degrees so eventually some will figure out that it does not make sense that a low profile mexican school is granting hundreds of doctorates. I think it is the same for some of the Costa Rican schools, as long as you get few in the market, nobody will question them, but it does not makes sense that a tiny school in Costa Rica is granting hundreds of doctorates either.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    They're really just honorary degrees, not necessarily "post-doctoral." You don't do anything to earn them, although they have a few qualifications to receive them.

    But here's the rub: you don't apply for honorary degrees; they're granted. And you certainly don't pay for them--although many are awarded in response to donations.

    Interestingly, they have a separate page for honorary doctorates. They're really trying to drive home the point that there's no paper shortage in Chaico. A slew of honorary doctorates are available...for a fee. They don't say how much of a fee, though, and insist that:

    "Administrative Fee. The fee is to cover basic and minimum for registration and
    review of portfolio package, this is not considered a donation neither tuition."

    Uh...okay. Or something. The brochure on honorary doctorates takes great care in showing you pictures of the stuff you get (diploma, student ID, secret decoder ring, etc.).

    I have a lot of materials from the old days when this stuff was done by mail. This feels like that.

    I used to play sports. Then I realized you can buy trophies. Now I am good at everything. -- Demetri Martin

    This isn't too impressive: Under the page titled, "Having a Doctoral Degree," the very first thing they note is: "You can have the luxury of having Dr. as your title." Does the offensiveness of this even need to be explained? (The rest of the page is filled with similar low-rent drivel.)

    I can't seem to find anywhere how much this stuff costs. I'm curious how much it costs to buy your own honorary degree.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Here is the link to these programs:

    I once tried to get a DSc from British school and they wanted 10K pounds. I was interested because the school is AACSB accredited. I am not so sure how useful would be the DSc from Azteca, it might be OK if you have an unaccredited PhD and they accept your work for a DSc from Azteca that is also unaccredited but might pass some of the NACES evaluators at least based on the evidence.

    You need 10 papers but I noticed they have their own journal. The might also charge for publications so the model is to charge money for the 10 papers and then the degree.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Double fraud. Give them fake papers (for publication in the fake journal) then they award a fake paper: the degree. The only real paper is the money -- and that's arguable, with printing presses going at warp speed. "Surreal" hardly covers it. This is full-on Theatre of the Absurd. I'm still "Waiting for Godot." I don't want to be "Waiting for my Diploma."
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's an epic level of dumbness. I am not sure NACES really could do anything, but WES - my oh my is it bad. This kind of stupidity, plus boundless arrogance, plus God-awful customer service - the place should be abolished with extreme prejudice.
    Thankfully, for most people their evaluation is either not necessary or could be obtained elsewhere cheaper and certainly faster. It's worse in Canada where there are I believe 4 officially recognized evaluators and many recipients specify one or two. WES sure contributed to the Early Childhood educator saga I was posting about - delays, high fees, inconsistent pre-evaluation database, and idiotic "no DEAC" policy. I actually got my WES Canada evaluation on government's dime through one of the settlement agencies. Used it once - for CRA job - and again a few months ago for getting a new TT faculty job. The rat b@st@rds charge around $30 for an ELECTRONIC copy of an evaluation that was done and paid for 13 years ago. Literally to run a script querying their database and sending an e-mail.
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I'd disagree here: these degrees more closely resemble higher doctorates, that are still quite common in Europe. As you know, the British system has an earned DSc, it's just not so common anymore. Other countries, with systems derived from German or Soviet (itself loosely based on German) systems very much have "Dr. habil." or "Doctor of Science" degrees that are very real and play an important part in academia and as a title to boast of. In fact, 10 papers is very similar to the usually quoted minimums russian or Ukrainian DSc would require. Of course, in these countries you usually write a second dissertation to get a DSc.

    Of course, a higher doctorate is acquired to either satisfy formal requirements for a tenured job in academia ore some government sector position - and I doubt a propio from Mexico will cut it in most of these cases. Or - it is done to gain higher prestige. In this case - Azteca who? It's not exactly a university to lend all that much additional prestige on a higher doctorate holder. So eah, I don't see much of use for thses programs.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It is. I forgot to point out that the British QAA recognizes the degree as being equal to the PhD. So, WES is right but the QAA is wrong? That's a little upside-down!
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but there's nothing "higher" about these degrees. They are awarded without any work at all. The best I can muster is honoris causa, and even that's a bit of a stretch since the recipient is the applicant. They are indistinguishable from the honorary doctorates this school also sells.
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    But you don't have to do either in this case. You can have some people attest to your contributions to the field and voila!

    I just can't buy it. (Or, literally speaking, I could just buy it. And so it goes....)
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    10 papers is not "no work at all"; in fact, assuming rigorous evaluation (I doubt it in practice, but lat's assume), it's a serious requirement. The requirements seem relaxed and one can argue that it's a mill-level version of such a credential (higher doctorates mean to signify a SENIOR academic), but what they are trying to approximate is an earned credential, not honorary. Which doesn't mean there is any perceivable utility in this degree, though.

    ...oh, I see what you mean. The availability of the third, "3 recommendations" option cheapens this whole thing basically to nothing. Honorary award in this case is almost better.
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Ahhh, I see. That can be a good workaround.

    It could still present a problem if an entity asked for it to be mailed directly to them. There is a workaround I know of for that, but I'll stop there...

    In a way the issue is similar since you can't get another one after 5 years (and most people probably wouldn't think to get a bunch of copies beforehand), and then you'd have to get a new one and face the possibility of an unfavorable evaluation the second time around.

    I read an old IEE evaluation showing that they used to revise evaluations after 5 years if you pay a fee, but I was told by their customer service that this is no longer possible. They now only make revisions up to one year from the completion of the initial evaluation. So now on the 5 year mark, it has to be a totally new evaluation at full price.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is problematic if the school goes out of business. With all these private schools coming and going, Azteca might not be here in 5 years. It looks to me for example that University of San Juan de la Cruz (Costa Rica) is already out business as its web site is totally outdated and none of the links work, they might still be granting degrees just as a cash cow but the government might withdraw their license once they figure they are no longer operating but just printing diplomas.
    The same for many of these schools, they seem to be cash cows, once the American evaluators no longer provide equivalencies, they will go out of business.
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, they are using the European model of the higher doctorate except that the mexican system does not have higher doctorates. It is very convenient that they have their own journal. I can ask them how it works as I am curious but my guess is that they would offer the 10 papers based on experience or something of this sort and grant the degree if enough cash is thrown into the table.

    I agree that any tenure track or permanent position requiring a doctorate would not take seriously an Azteca higher doctorate. However, the market might be people with an unaccredited doctorate needing a better doctorate for adjunct work careers. Many people make a living as a adjuncts and need the doctorate just to keep getting work, if I have a doctorate from a DEAC school or unaccredited university and the Azteca DSc gets me a NACES evaluation certificate, I will be willing to throw the 10K to get this paper to get more wok.
    We should not judge people for getting these credentials, the market is over saturated with people with credentials and sometimes is a matter of survival. I was guilty of going to Microsoft boot camps when I was young because I needed fast Microsoft credentials to keep getting work. These camps used to cost 3 to 5K but got me me the certificates to keep getting work, these certificates only lasted 3 to 4 years and then I needed to throw more money to keep getting work. It is sad but sometimes we are forced to keep throwing money just to keep a job.
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You are right, there are 3 paths to this degree:
    Done post-doctoral work in Science, Engineering, Technology and other related areas for a minimum period of 2 years and have published 10 research papers or indexed journals as first or corresponding author.


    Post Ph.D. experience of more than 2 years in Science, Engineering, Technology and other related areas, 2 patents (at least 1 international patent) in relevant discipline and his/her research work and efforts should have national and international recognition and have made a distinct contribution to the society and advancement of knowledge.


    Post Ph.D. experience of more than 2 years in Science, Engineering, Technology and other related areas, at least three recommendations/ referrals of his research or contribution from nationally/ internationally recognized experts in the concerned field and his/her work and effort which should have made a distinct contribution to the society and advancement of knowledge.

    So the third option just needs 3 letters that probably can be purchased from an expert or just taken from any other PhD probably with the same Azteca doctorates.
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think they might just help you the 3 reference letters. This seems to be more viable as some people might be lazy enough to write 10 papers even if accepted by paying a fee, they still have to write 10 papers so just paying to get 3 letters seems to be more feasible. At the end, I might just need the DSc so I keep getting 2K adjunct gigs at the UoP or similar school.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think the name "Azteca" is presumptuous. And possibly disrespectful, seeing as it's regarded by some as a low-grade university - or at least one that is suspected, in some places, of doing low-grade things. That school's name refers to the Mesoamerican culture that flourished in central Mexico in the post-classic period from 1300 to 1521. (Thanks, NOT, Spanish soldiers!)

    There are more than a million Nahuatl-speaking people in Mexico today. They may, collectively, have cause for grievance against this outfit. A "Million-Person March on Chalco" could make exciting history!
    I have but one answer for that: ChatGPT. :)
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree, the name Azteca gives the sense of a prestigious school. I think the school has all the right to go international as any other schools as long as they do it ethically. The international operation is a bit confusing because they offer European qualifications like the higher doctorate.
  20. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    Azteca of course offers legit/official credentials up to the EdD level in Mexico and has branch campuses. Unfortunately, this appears to be a case of the regulators/system is concerned about what these schools do as it impacts their citizens BUT what the school offers to unsuspecting, confused, or opportunist foreigners is not something they are concerned about.

    Azteca does appear to be very clear on the diploma that these are "University's own degrees" (proprio).

    For most people it would seem worth taking a gamble on the UCN agreement/degree if you are going to pull the trigger. Nicaragua is a little volatile at the moment so that could add stress to the process.


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