Azteca University - International - Foreign Credential Evaluation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's better than the US system, I think. You don't get low-grade schools, shielded by religious exemption handing out degrees (hopefully only in religion) that are not worthy of being called degrees. The kind of degree-looking papers that unscrupulous holders will attempt to use, to bamboozle their way into a secular job they can't get without a degree. Here, if your religious school wants to award academic degrees - it has to qualify for recognition, just like any other University. The religion part it can do on its own - or often, subject to the religious accreditation of a Denom.

    And if a religious school chooses not to qualify - or does not qualify for any reason, as a University - it can issue awards for religious studies as it sees fit - certificates, diplomas etc but NOT academic degrees. N-o-t ... e-v-e-n... o-n-e.

    I don't hold with religion for myself - at all. But I'm not against it for believers. We all have to make our choices.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That was somewhat my experience when I used to consult for Electronic Arts for a number of years on Madden until things went south. During the Madden 11 development cycle I gave them a ton of improvement suggestions which they just outright rejected and made changes that were sure to make its fanbase angry. I strongly advised them not to make those changes. They didn't listen and it blew up in their faces with one of the things becoming a public fiasco that played out through the media after fan anger boiled over. I stopped working with them after that because it became clear to me that they just wanted to be told what they wanted to hear not what they needed to hear to improve their game (and apparently that hasn't changed since. The game today is as much of a disaster as it's ever been that only survives because EA bought the exclusive license to make NFL games back in 2005 which killed off the rest of the market, and they don't listen to their fans nor their consultants).

    I was vindicated the next season when in Madden 12 they added every single thing they rejected from me the year before and credited me in the game, lol. It wound up being widely considered by sim gamers as the best Madden of the 7th generation and one of the best Madden's ever made.
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  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Sounds like you should start your own evaluator, then. ;)
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I wonder how airtight that system really is. I mean, Redeemer University College is solid, and so are a few other schools like that. There are a few ABHE-accredited institutions, which is fine. But there is this school:
    Bible College | FaithWay Baptist College of Canada | Ajax (

    I only became aware of it because I knew a guy who's a member of that church. At a glance, they do not seem at all comparable to most of Ontario degree-granting schools. But the college does have the authority. By the Act of Provincial Parliament, even.
  5. tadj

    tadj Active Member


    Their catalog states that "an applicant must be an active member of an independent, fundamental Baptist church." It would hard to compare a tiny theological training institution with a humanities and science-oriented Christian university college such as; Redeemer or Tyndale. I am not sure that it would be a fair comparison. FBC's religous education degrees would not be accepted in the Ontario public school system. I don't see any substantial threats here, at least on the surface. It just wouldn't be my cup of tea with King James Only-ism and other problematic doctrinal commitments. Are you objecting to the whole notion of a church-based theological training insitution being given a provincial degree-granting charter?
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I looked, Stanislav. Well, I don't LIKE it -- separate degree programs for men and women - and they teach a course about being a woman in the Baptist world - both are the kind of thing I don't like to see. I think telling women how to be women is an insult -- they already know. I hope it's not simply obedience training - always defer to the men who run the show, etc. Other religions do that kind of thing. It's bad. REALLY bad. I'm not having any.

    I note they teach religion alone. No secular degrees. So I can't really tell on short notice whether they're below par when it comes to University requirements. The Bachelor's seems a little light on Biblical languages. Two courses in Introductory Greek Grammar - no Hebrew at all. You're more versed in religious matters than I am. If you says it's deficient - I'll take your word.

    The things I don't like are clouding my judgment here - so I'll stay out. Not a field I'm knowledgeable in. I'm happy not liking them. Don't want to know more.
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I have experience with NACES and AICE services. Both are similar, I used services from both organizations just to see if the evaluations came different but were evaluated the same. NACES holds more value in Canada, many places and organizations recognize NACES evaluations as well. AICE evaluations are also recognized but it is less known.
    Azteca PhDs will not likely be recognized as they are not official degrees. I completed one Masters propio degree from CLEA (Recognized university in Mexico) and it was not recognized by the NACES and AICE service that I used before mainly because the degree is not officially recognized in Mexico. The NACES service did not charge for the preevaluation and the AICE service charged 40 dlls to do a preevaluation. The propio degrees I was told they can be recognized as non credit continuing education certificates (NACES service).

    With the proliferation of these propio degrees, I anticipate the evaluation services will be more aware and will give no credit to these diplomas in the US. I believe to avoid confusion, now propio degrees have the legend "Formacion continua" or continuing education. This way the evaluation service would know automatically that they are just continuing education certificates.

    The PhD from Central Nicaragua is a bit on the gray area. Technically should be accredited but some services do not recognize them like WES.

    If you are doing a PhD from Central Nicaragua, I would finish it and evaluate it right away before nobody can give you a positive evaluation report. I am also not sure about the expiration date of these reports. Can a evaluation service revoke an evaluation report if later they figure that the degree is no longer equivalent?

    Also, these services go out of business or no longer want to validate reports that are older than 5 years. You might need to be forced to do a second evaluation of your degree after 5 years and get a different evaluation of the degree if the service thinks that your degree is no longer equivalent. Mexican and Costa Rican schools also lose licenses and go out of business.

    In any case, these propio degrees are becoming a money making business. In Mexico and Costa Rica, you only need one accredited degree (Lets say a BS) to be an official university and then you can issue propio PhDs to americans that can then evaluate them as equivalent to PhDs in the US. As many schools are doing this, the business of propio degrees will come to an end soon.
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. The translation I get is "Permanent Training" from "formación permanente".
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is a bit complicated. The in the past, Quebec also authorized religious schools to grant degrees but not in anymore. So lets say that I show up with my PhD from a bible college of Quebec that no longer has authority to grant degrees that was granted in the 80s. As very few people know about these degrees, they will most likely will not be understood by any evaluation service. In Ontario and other provinces, these degrees are recognized on a case by case basis but mainly for clergy positions or professional associations of pastoral counsellors. There are still many bible colleges that operate here and there but many have agreements with universities so their students can transfer to higher level educational systems. Technically they are legally granted degrees but as not many people understand them, it is hard to use them for industrial jobs.
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Permanent training is even more confusing, it shows that you just took a few days seminar in a subject and was granted a certificate for it.
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't like either one. To me, Master Propio in Rocket Psychology would've made more sense, but my viewpoint is through an American filter. I'm sure what they went with sounds fine to their ears.

    According to one training center I had a discussion by email with about the change a little while back, it was done to remove confusion between who had a Propio and who had an Official degree. With all titles being the same before, it was hard to tell, and people weren't all that inclined to make the distinction up front.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I like that one! These days. It'd probably be a good seller. Let me know when the curriculum is out. It'll be a good read! :) "Rocket Psychology?" Might make a great game, too! One way or another - this could make a fortune! Terrific idea!

    What does your rocket think? Mine's all for it!
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
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  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

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  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry. I checked Google first - to see what they said. Wrongly assuming...again. My apologies.
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  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - I just read some of the Decree (Spanish text). It certainly does have the "permanent" flavor in quite a bit of it. Both definitions of the phrase are permissible. Sorry again about my wrong assumption re your use of Google.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  17. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I have seen a NACES evaluator IEE evaluate Azteca's Doctor of Science (non-RVOE) as a Post-Doctoral studies program. However, they gave it the equivalent of a Regionally Accredited Institution / Non-Accredited Program evaluation. That graduate has had it evaluated through other FCEs nationally (outside of NACES) and internationally and was given full recognition. IEE also evaluates Spanish Propios from ENEB as Regionally Accredited Graduate Certificates through Isabel I with WES USA non-accredited Master and ECE an accredited Bachelor. Many others evaluators through NACES and AICE after inquiry say they will only evaluate propios for credit hours and/or program length. Some may also state Non-Accredited Programs like IEE did for Azteca's non-RVOE programs as AES (American Evaluation Services) gave ENEB one year of study from a Regionally Accredited Institution / Non-Accredited Program evaluation.

    I think there is a time limit for these evaluations which is 5 years based on WES-Canada's Credly badge system. I think many of these evaluators are at least keeping an open mind but there are a few of these evaluators that refuse to evaluate propios that I have come across. Most of these were the ones that were first established at the same time as WES back in 1987 but there was one of the newer ones from 2022 that also refuse to evaluate as well. However, the company, Globe Language Services, has been in existence for years with a lot of unhappy customers prior to becoming a NACES member.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
  18. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That was IEE's exact terminology? Like this?:

    Program/level: Post-Doctoral Studies
    Equivalence: Regionally Accredited Institution / Non-Accredited Program

    Do you have any information on why they word it as "Regionally Accredited Institution / Non-Accredited Program" and what they're communicating by writing it that way? I ask because that would confuse me. I'd be asking "Well, is it equivalent to RA or is it equivalent to non-accredited?"

    Did it happen to mention a determination on the degree level?

    Yep. As I understand it, as a general practice, evaluators set a time limit on the validity of their evaluations. I can understand a new evaluation for a different person being different than mine because things may have changed with that school since I received my evaluation. But I can't understand the point of an evaluation expiring and therefore no longer being valid which in turn would in some way invalidate my degree if I had to go to another company and need a new evaluation, and that evaluation wound up being unfavorable. Seems pretty ridiculous to me. I don't see why it isn't treated the way degrees are treated with accreditation. If you earned a degree from a school while it was accredited, your degree doesn't suddenly become unaccredited if the school loses its accreditation.

    I mean, you do all of that work, you earn the title of Doctor, you get situated well in a career with that degree and title, then you need to or decide to go to a new company, need an evaluation again, and now the degree is evaluated as, I dunno, a Weekend Community College Seminar Certificate. New employer laughs at you, you don't get the job, no one will legitimately recognized you as a Doctor in your field where evaluations are needed, and all of the work and experience you built goes out the window? Neh, don't like.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Nobody does. But that's the risk you take with a $5K doctoral degree from another country. It's like buying a car - you get a sub-$10K car from Geely, Chang An, Dongfeng et al. in China, your outcome here may not be what you wanted.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Even more expensive foreign degrees from highly-regarded schools have gotten unfavorable evaluations, and mostly with questionable reasoning just like some of the degrees from lesser schools have gotten. So the only way to avoid a problem is to stay domestic, but with domestic tuition prices being completely ridiculous, it's incentivized more people to take their chances with foreign degrees.

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