ABMS (The Open University of Switzerland)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Pugbelly2, Jun 28, 2015.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah - I think that last was about right --- for once. Here's Investopedia's definition of Aktiengesellschaft:

    "DEFINITION of 'AG (Aktiengesellschaft)' AG is an abbreviation of Aktiengesellschaft, which is a German term for a public limited company; this is a company whose shares are offered to the general public and traded on a public stock exchange, and whose shareholders' liability is limited to their investment."

    Whole thing here: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/ag-aktiengesellschaft.asp Very thorough explanation - setting up, leadership, auditing etc.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Aktiengesellschaft? Maybe not. Perhaps what you really want is a Liechtenstein Anstalt (foundation). This tiny country makes an industry out of providing these for the well-heeled of any nation. No members, participants or shareholders. Just a founder - and no need to register his/her name! No need to visit Liechtenstein either! Greatest anti-tax vehicle - plus privacy (read "secrecy") too. The stuff of thrillers and the financially shady. Educate your kids - put their allowance in one! And their college funds in another! :)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anstalt
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  3. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Gotcha, understood. I know something about U.S. corporate form, as I've taught that, I know nothing whatsoever about those in other countries.
     
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    This sort of reminds me of how DeVry University goes by a different name in New York as they don’t qualify to use the word “university” here.

    They’re still DeVry University. Their website still says it. But in fine print it notes that in NY they are known as something else. Perhaps SMC is doing something similar. They might have some presence in a jurisdiction that is more open to the use of the word “university” and so they are “university” everywhere but their actual Swiss location?

    I don’t know. Personally, I’m just amused at how often SMC comes up on this forum and how it’s nice reminds me of the multi level marketing system that Tom Bodley used to do commercials for.
     
  5. mintaru

    mintaru Member

    It's true, Aktiengesellschaft means joint-stock company, and it is also similar to a widely-held corporation in the US, but it's a particular type of joint-stock company. An AG has (by law) a "two-tiered board" structure, consisting of a management board (Vorstand) and a supervisory board (Aufsichtsrat). There are other types of public joint-stock companies in Germany.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  6. mintaru

    mintaru Member

    I just found an interesting article about ABMS at a local news website for the cantons of Lucerne and Zug. It is in German, and the Google translation isn't great, but I think it is still possible to understand it.

    https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zentralplus.ch%2Fde%2Fnews%2Fgesellschaft%2F5557227%2FZuger-Schein-Uni-blitzt-vor-Gericht-ab-und-erntet-Kritik.htm&edit-text=

    The "related articles" on the bottom of that page are also quite interesting.
     
  7. Phenyxe

    Phenyxe New Member

    Don’t go there! You will waste you time and money!
     
  8. Phenyxe

    Phenyxe New Member

    Following to my last posts, here are some info for whom interested in knowing about this school.

    1. Don’t even consider to take this school. It’s really a bad one. You will waste money and time. It’s a nightmare!

    2. The school changed its names for some reasons. OUS because the owner is the Prince from Saudi. Nothing to do with the accreditation nor Swiss law has changed. Also, it might be related to some legal problems that they want to avoid.

    3. Your degree is worthless and your education is useless. You learn much more in free lessons from the YouTube.

    This is a serious warning!!! You can find many other information about them now because many students were so upset and posted more info on it.

    Hope you don’t make a huge mistake like I did
     
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I read mintaru's linked articles - all of them - and Phenyxe's posting. And all Durak al Valaby's warnings before his. See below. Point taken!

    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/innovation-university-of-silicon-valley-iusv-fake-university-and-diploma-mill.48487/

    One thing perplexes me. Authorities in the Arab world generally frown very seriously on milled or fake degrees. It seems odd that a Prince would own a "school" like this one, with what's said about it. Well, whoever owns it - doesn't matter. Not going, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  10. Gerd

    Gerd New Member

    Has anyone ever gotten deeper into the OUS Royal "Dual Award degrees". The way I understand it, you will get two separate sheeet of paper as your diploma. One from OUS Royal and one from the partner university. That would mean one would get an ownstanding degree from e.g. Taurida National University.

    I´ve been trying to contact Taurida National University (not sure whether the partnership goes with what´s left of the school in Krim or whether it´s that part of the University that has been transfered to Kiew. I contacted both) to specify about their cooperation with OUS Royal however I never got an answer though writing to several University Email adresses.

    After my doctoral supervisor passed away and the new supervisor rejected my project, I´m desparately looking for an institution that would be willing to accept a far advanced dissertation....... reputation doesn´t matter, should be state-accredite however.

    ps: english is not my mother tongue...sorry for the mistakes
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I feel like I'm channeling Steve now but I can't stop myself from saying "That should tell you something important, shouldn't it?"
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Well, it was quite clear that what they had with T. G. Shekchenko Kyiv National University was a MOU and not real dual degree program. n admin from Kyiv U. sent me a private message here confirming as much, and saying that they terminated the relationship and regretted doing it in the first place.
    Also, getting a diploma from Krim version of Tavrida U. might lead to problems, because Russian jurisdiction there is illegal.

    Bottom line - do NOT go with OUS-ABMS. Please. They are, very clearly, scammy.
     
    Johann likes this.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And please don't go with any other Swiss University that only has Cantonal approval - even though some are far better than ABMS or whatever it's called nowadays. Reason: You said you required "State accreditation." No Cantonally-approved school has Swiss Federation recognition, like mainstream Swiss Universities. Cantonal schools are legally allowed to award degrees that may have no recognized standing.

    They are not all dishonest - or all mills, in my opinion, anyway. But none of them have state recognition - which is pretty well impossible for a distance-only school to achieve in Switzerland. That requires a prohibitively large number of highly-qualified professors, library holdings, buildings, research, yada yada. And so -- for the startups, cantonal approval to the rescue. Mixed bag, no state recognition. I believe the use of the word "University" is now restricted (or soon will be) in Switzerland to schools that have Swiss Federation recognition.

    Gerd, I wish you well with completion of your doctorate. You are wise to stick to schools that have state recognition.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  15. Gerd

    Gerd New Member

    Thanks for your replies. Since I've written a 250 Pages text (which seems to have an insufficient quality according to my new doctoral supervisor and would need another one or two years of revision) and I want a fast solution to finally bring this project to an end, I would be willing to stick to OUS......in case their cooperation with Taurida University prooves to be legitimate.
    Which i will try to figure out and will write here as soon as i've had success.

    I'm from Germany, Ous 's other cooperations University Azteca / University Central de Nicaragua are only state recognized in germany for present studies and not for their distance programms. So they aren't an Option neither.

    OUS still offers joint diplomas with Uni Kiew, they told me that their cooperation with Uni Kiew will end in 2022.

    Thanks for the hint to the South African school I will look into IT:)
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Since you're interested in a fast solution I'd suggest you forget the South Africa idea. It is neither fast nor easy. Proceed with eyes open, Grasshopper.
     
  17. mintaru

    mintaru Member

    If you're from Germany, stay away from OUS, even if their cooperation with Taurida University is legitimate. And I'm not sure it is. Do you know why University Azteca's and University Central de Nicaragua's distance learning programs aren't recognized in Germany? Both schools have joint degree programs with schools that are considered degree mills in Germany.

    A school is legally considered a degree mill in Germany if the degrees from that school are not recognized in that schools home country. (Mainstream schools from that country do not recognize a degree from that school.) This applies to OUS. In other words, OUS is considered a degree mill in Germany. Therefore, even if their cooperation with Taurida University is legitimate, it is possible that Taurida University's DL programs will lose recognition in Germany in the future because of Taurida University's cooperation with OUS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm going to have to think of that as "the German Rule" now. It's a useful standard and might be another way to make judgements in other situations.
     
  19. Gerd

    Gerd New Member

    That´s not quite correct.
    In Germany you are legally allowed to present yourself as a "Dr." if you gained your degree at a foreign school which is state-recognized by the state the school is located in.
    Since OUS is not a state-recognized institution in Switzerland it ain´t in Germany neither.

    That does definately NOT mean, that all schools that don´t have state recognition are considered to be diploma mills.


    Do you know why University Azteca's and University Central de Nicaragua's distance learning programs aren't recognized in Germany? Both schools have joint degree programs with schools that are considered degree mills in Germany.

    No, their distance learning programs are not recognized by the German state because these programs are not being watched / recognized by the Nicaraguan/Mexican state.
    University Azteca's and University Central de Nicaragua' have a location in Austria which is organisizing the distance learning studies and which the German state does not consider to be acceptable as scientific organisation:
    https://uni-azteca.ac.at/
    In Austria however the Doctorates from https://uni-azteca.ac.at/ are recognized and can be used as a title.

    Whatever I think a discussion about the recognition system in Germany would be an exaggeration at this point ;-)
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I'm far from being an expert on the German education system and recognition of credentials from other countries.
    But I worked on a few projects for DT and met a few individuals with Qualifications that got recognized as equivalent to a degree but these were not a university degree.
    They have also a system that somehow does equivalency of professional/vocational qualifications that map on DQF/EQF to a degree. For employment, this works for further education I have no idea.
     

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