A DETC doctorate -- Why *not* ?

A check at many DETC websites shows that most have a few staff with a NA degrees. AJU is a case in point. My instructor right now has a DETC undergrad and masters but he also has a butt load of experience in Criminal justice and is a Chief of Police. We can say this, or that, but at the end of the day experience in the subject you want to teach can go a hell of a long way. I plan to be a second case in point as well at my local CC. I dropped my hat into the ring to teach the LEO academy classes and I was told that a bachelors is needed but a wavier could be made for me and my DETC degree is %100 acceptable to use. But the catch is I have many years of experience as a narcotics task force officer and that's what the classes I would teach would be in. It's only CE program so they can be a lot less strict unlike, let's say a History class, or a strait up CJ class would. Did that last part make sense? I've been up late tonight studying for my final proctored exam to finish my degree in the morning!!!

 

P.S.

Let's say you apply at a job and you have a RA Undergrad, RA masters and a NA doctorate, you go through the interview and they like you and they thing you’re a good fit for their program. They’re going to hire you because they want to, and because you just blew them away in the interview. If a school likes you and you impress them, a DETC doctorate will not hold them back. I was on a schools website the other night, and was shocked to see that only about one in four staff members in the different departments even held a doctorate. Most held a master’s and some held an Ed.S. We can say you won't get a job with an all online RA PhD or any NA degree but the whole point of my writing is that the degree only gets you the interview, you get the rest!!!!

 

I'll soon have an RA master's. If I had to guess, an RA master's + NA doctorate doesn't close the door on teaching forever. After the doctoral program I'd want to focus on having a non-teaching job and writing. In 5 years if I desperately wanted to teach do you think I'd be barred entry or so uncompetitive that I shouldn't even bother?

 

The school that I'm speaking of requires a master's degree, not a doctorate, to teach undergraduate-level classes.

 

Of course no one can see the future. You may have the experience in your field to pull off landing a teaching job. However, IMO, a doctorate that is NA will not be a strong factor in your favor, even 5 years from now. It's unfair, but it's probably a reality.

 

It's true that UNISA has a rep that indicates it's system can be a pain to navigate, especially the admission process. The extent to which this is actually a true reflection of the process is in some dispute as all of our current members who are either currently enrolled or recently graduated have said that it's really not that hard. Here's what I know: UNISA is an internationally known university whose graduates work, publish and teach from all corners of the globe and a PhD from UNISA must be seen as one of the best values in the education world. HMU is hardly known outside of these distance learning discussion boards and a DA degree has yet to prove itself to be worth the price of earning it. If I was in that market I'd prefer to navigate the UNISA admission process in order to earn the clearly more valuable degree.

 

Folks forget that many B & M community colleges and some universities (non doctoral granting universities) only require master's degree to teach there. A doctoral degree qualifies your to teach undergraduate and graduate courses (, bachelor, master and doctorate level), but it's not uncommon to teach undergrad level courses only using a regionally accredited master degree. Like I've noted before in another thread, I've seen folks with NA doctorates in the faculty listing of some RA schools (DeVry, Keiser, Capitol College, Western International, etc.). It would seem that those with NA doctorates at these schools got their teaching gig using their RA master's degree. And then, maybe got their NA doctorates because of a combination of other factors (cost, area of specialism, flexibility, etc.), which we may never know unless they tell you. We are so fixated with teaching at doctoral granting online schools that we forget that there are even more opportunities at local community colleges that require master degrees only., and sometimes, based on our individual unique situations, an NA doctorate may be the only option for getting a doctorate. The reality is not everyone looking for online degrees can attend RA schools. That's why DETC exists to serve the needs of these folks. Not everyone can afford to attend RA schools at super high tuition. Period.

 

I have seen numerous faculty ads for NA schools that specify RA degrees only. The only reason I could see for a NA Doctorate is for the person in a current position where a Doctorate = pay raise when NA v. RA does not matter, but even then that is for that organization only. If the person someday decides to switch employers, he/she has limited the utility of the Doctorate based on an accreditation choice.

I am not trying to be a jerk, but I still fail to see the point of a NA Doctorate. Why would someone choose to pursue a path that is known to have obstacles to acceptance in certain circles? In my mind, it is like buying a house that you cannot live in on the weekends.

If someone has an overwhelming desire to be called Doctor, then cool - go for a DETC Doctorate. If they are not even accepted by some NA schools for teaching - what purpose do they serve for those wanting to work in higher education other than to generate revenue for an NA school? Insert ominous Dave Wagner conspiracy music here.

Good point, but this argument just reinforces the negatives for an NA degree. Unless you are a professional student (no offense Dr. Randall), why would you choose a NA degree when you need to take additional RA classes on top of it to get the benefit out of it?

 

LOL! wned:

 

You make some good points truckie. The appeal of the NA doctorate for me is the price and delivery method. RA online doctoral programs are generally expensive and/or have numerous residencies, with only a very few exceptions. I also think most people pursing one are in it for professional advancement or personal development. I doubt there's any inexperienced young people going after an NA doctorate in hopes of teaching college with it.

I hear about it all the time but does anyone have an actual example of an ad from a nationally accredited school asking for a regionally accredited degree? This is one of those things I have to see with my own eyes to believe.

 

Here's a quotation from another thread posted today:

"There are 2 broad phases to the UNISA doctoral experience: when you are still on the outside, and when you are admitted to a specific doctorate. They are very different.

In the first phase, you are one of 300,000+ students that a fairly thin admin staff is trying to handle - and generally doing a good job. For this stage, I recommend patience and using services like IACI. Shouting louder and more frequently at this stage doesn't help.

Once you are admitted, you then belong to a much smaller department with a smaller pool of students, and a more responsive admin staff. Once you are rolling on your dissertation, all the correspondence will be with your supervisor(s). In my case, I can't think of a time I didn't hear back by email within days, hours even.

So in the end it's worth waiting out the long admission process; the journey from there on is quite exhilarating!" distancedoc2007

 

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Well, since it takes at least three years to graduate a crop of doctoral students and since moreover DETC has not had the authority to accredit doctoral programs that long, how the hell do we know that DETC schools are not hiring DETC docs as professors?

 

If DETC schools aren't accepting NA masters degrees for undergraduate instructors, why should we believe they will accept NA doctorates?

 

Do you have any evidence of this?

 

Thanks GeneralSnus - I was just on Grantham looking for a posting but the annoying pop-up live chat window with an Admissions "specialist" kept distracting me. I checked several other NA schools, but for some reason qualifications are not listed until you create an HR application account and attach documents - no thanks.

Could there be a reason that some NA schools are less-than-transparent about the degree requirements for their faculty jobs? A quick check on the Chronicle jobs website for a random sampling of jobs at RA schools indicated that every single one of them specified applicant must hold an RA degree.........hmmm........ I could not even find a Chronicle posting for an NA job.

I am not an NA "hater", but it seems to me that a great many of the people that frequent this board are looking to kill many birds with one stone in their degree search - finish an unfinished degree, transfer max. credits, finish quickly/cheaply, land adjunct work, etc. If NA works for some to do this - cool. Good for you and good luck in your studies.

Acceptance of a NA degree, right or wrong, is not on par with the acceptance of a RA degree in many circles and the buyer needs to be aware of this from the start. It may work really well for one need, but not be that great to fill another. If you are going to invest time, money, energy in completing a degree - why would you not try and check as many boxes as you could in terms of utility?

Is it unfair or hypocritical that schools will happily take your money for an NA degree and then file your CV in the round file in the first round when you apply to a faculty job there? Absolutely. Does embarking on a NA degree program in the hopes that thinking will change seem like a good idea? Not really. Does the prospect of continually having to defend a NA degree as "just as good" seem like a worthwhile effort? Not when there are other options. I was in the same boat with the RA NCU PhD. program - continually having to defend it to people just put another check in the "con" column for me.

In reality, the topics of this conversation can be easily changed to "for-profit v. NFP", "online v. B&M", etc. and you will get varying responses as we have seen here. It is up to each individual to decide what program is right or wrong for his/her individual circumstances. Once you have made the decision - run with it and make the best of it, but do not keep asking for opinions on whether you made a good choice or not because the answer will vary depending on the context in which you asked it.

 

GeneralSnus just posted an ad from Grantham.

 

I teach for an NA school and they said they do not want me / need me listing my NA degrees (CCU) when I sent my resume. You have to send an updated resume/CV every year. They told me they were only interested in seeing my RA degrees. Maybe it was because I have an RA degree but maybe not.

 

Personally, i don't know why the litmus test of the value of a degree always seems to come down to whether it will get you into an RA university teaching job. Isn't this the vast minority of employment opportunities? NA doctoral degrees may have some uses but it seems clear that university teaching, even at NA universities, is not something that you can count on with any substantial degree of reliability. This doesn't mean that they're not useful in some other ways. As I"ve said, an NA DBA on top of an MBA might work for some people. An NA DA on top of a MEd might work well, depending on the situation. Sometimes people cite cost as a factor but I think that's a red herring. Does someone want to put up a spreadsheet and demonstrate that a NA DBA is cheaper than all other RA DBAs or GAAP DBAs? I'd like to see that.

 

I could not agree more. I think it would be interesting to poll those that have degrees (get a mix of RA and NA responses) and ask when the intention was behind the degree. Did the degree meet the expectations? if the answer is yes then it is a "good degree".