A DETC doctorate -- Why *not* ?

I was with you until this last paragraph. I think asking for opinions is inevitable and that conversations will continually recycle as time goes on, new people join the forum, and new issues come up. This particular thread was started with the intent of avoiding the typical course of past threads but I knew ahead of time the road it would probably take.

 

1. Scratch this one: since you have only a 10% chance of being awarded your degree at an RA school, a nationally-accredited school is a much better investment of time and effort.
2. Scratch this one: RA doctoral schools are far more expensive than nationally-accredited schools, so your cash investment is going to be smaller at a DETC school. (Did I mention that you only have a 10% chance of graduating from an RA doctoral program?)
3. Scratch this one: Since you probably wouldn't be allowed to graduate from an RA doctoral program (90% of students aren't graduated with their degrees in hand), you don't need to worry about this one. If you do manage to be one the lucky 10% who graduate from an RA doctoral program, then your biggest threat of discrimination is from other RA schools. Ironic and tragic, but true!
4. Scratch this one: Doctoral units beyond 6 or 9 units usually don't transfer anyway, if at all, from and to any doctoral program.
5. Scratch this one: It is not clear what the professional utility of a nationally-accredited doctorate is at this point, but it is probably pretty good, and whatever it is, it is likely to increase significantly in the future.

Any other good reasons?

 

You certainly stick to the script, Dave. There's still that pesky business of the evidence in support of your 10% theory. If your post was an academic paper, and I were the reviewer, I'd put a big red circle around "10%" and write "Source?"

To focus on your most interesting assertion -- why do you think that a nationally-accredited doctorate will increase in professional utility with time?

 

I bet it's lower than 10%

 

I was not referring to you specifically. In the spirit of Dave - "I bet only 10% of the posters here use the search function" and it is totally up to you to refute my point.

 

a waste of time

I agree entirely. Why get a degree that everyone will regard as second-rate? There are plenty regionally accredited universities that no one would hire from.

We get hundreds of applications for every advertised job, even non-tenure track. We don't even read a vita from a third rate school.

 

Thanks for asking... As nationally-accredited doctoral degrees become better understood and nationally-accredited degree holders become more plentiful, it is reasonable to assume that DETC doctoral degrees will be afforded greater professional utility.

 

Yes, the graduation rate from distance learning RA doctoral programs is probably lower than 10%, but 10% is really my best guess until the criminal justice system sorts out this whole mess...

 

What would you say to those that would argue that the growing influx of RA doctoral programs will make NA doctorates even less appealing? To answer my own question, I think that the two main weapons in an NA school's arsenal are price and convenience. They will need to leverage both of these to stay alive, I think...

 

I would say that they are correct in their assessment.

 

For the record, I called Grantham and they said that the job listing was in error and that they do accept degrees from nationally accredited schools for faculty positions. The "truthiness" of this, to borrow a phrase, is up for debate.

 

Your assertion regarding cheap NA degrees being popular with poor countries is precisely why I think Aspen University may soon take over the DETC-accredited degree world (assuming they drastically expand their degree offerings). Except they're not spreading the word (about their low tuition) in the right places (advertising on the right websites), I know many from countries like Nigeria would jump on board with their super cheap degrees, especially, considering that many state-run universities in Nigeria barely stay open 3 months out of every school year (in fact for the last 3 months, majority of universities in Nigeria have remained closed) due to corruption, lack of paying salaries to staff, and embezzlement of monies meant for the smooth operation of government-run universities (which is 80% of all available schools in Nigeria) by those who manage it both in government and in the top levels of university management.

 

I have seen them......but if you want to question my integrity, fine. You are venturing into Dave Wagner territory with your "I'll call you a liar until you prove it wrong" approach.

Even if it is not a widespread practice, the fact remains that in terms of faculty hiring - RA works for both RA and NA. NA works for a portion, if not all of NA schools, and does not meet the criteria for that vast majority, if not all of RA. I really don't know how to break it down any simpler than that. You can click your heels all you want - right or wrong, NA does not garner the same degree of respect as RA for faculty positions.

 

I think maybe we had a miscommunication here. I was questioning the integrity of Grantham -- saying to me they don't discriminate against NA degrees but requesting RA degrees on their site. I know that NA degrees are discriminated against, I haven't said that they aren't. Someone's being a grumpy monkey today.

 

Sorry TJ - I jumped the gun. I need more coffee.

 

Hehe. I'm getting credit for good work that I didn't do (yet)...

When did I question the integrity of any specific individual or entity?

When did I call any specific person a liar or label any specific entity a collection of liars?

The except might be in the case of some of these fake personalities who hide behind anonymous User IDs to shill for schools or to level ad hominem attacks...

 

Sorry - I already noted I jumped the gun with the content. I was referring to the approach = throwing of claims out there with no support whatsoever and then challenging others to either find proof that they are not true or accept them as fact.

I have reasons for not using my name on an internet forum - send me a PM and I will gladly give you my particulars.

 

Exactly. Why even have this discussion. There is a market for everything. For those that want tenured track positions in a university, then go for the B&M RA PhD. I mean, seriously, it's your best chance, even though there is a PhD glut in the market anyway. For everyone else, like myself, a DETC doctorate is fine. I love learning, self-improvement, and continuing to sharpen my professional skills. And, I have no problems getting adjunct work, even at the the grad level.