Why you can't sue a for-profit college

Well, the funny thing is that it's easy to mock a guy like that.

How could a PhD earned in 7 months be legit? How could a degree earned by life experience be for real?

Meanwhile we would have no problem accepting a PhD by Published works from a legit university even though that could have been earned in the same amount of time. And we take great pride when someone scores a favorable evaluation from TESU to score credits for their work experiences.

It's RA or the highway except, of course, for foreign study from certain countries which we consider not only to be equivalent to RA but unquestionably better than NA.

Not saying we should do anything differently. But it seems that a Sunderlands University PhD by Published Works could be raising the same defense and someone might well say exactly this to try to dismiss him as a thieving crook.

 

Sutherland

I got a coupe of my degrees in the UK and frankly, Sunderland (no "s" on the end,) is considered about one step up from a degree-mill. It is accredited, of course, but to say it is not well regarded is an understatement.

Here's "The Guardian's" "league table". Sunderland is 109 out of 119 universities

University league tables 2016 | Education | The Guardian

There's very serious talk about revoking the university status of these fifth rate schools so that they focus more on teaching and drop the pretense that they are serious research institutions. There is a widespread agreement that spreading research funds among so many schools, many of them not very good. the UK is wasting research resources. Expecting less research from the faculty could lead to them teaching more classes and being hired and promoted more on their teaching ability than research.

As for the PhD by publication in the UK in general, all the good universities I am aware of, restrict this privileged to their currently employed staff or its own graduates (eg: those who have an undergraduate degree from that school)

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/looks-good-on-paper/416988.article

 

Heriot-Watt is impressively ranked.

 

Most of the lowest-ranked universities are post-1992, the "New Universities." Not surprising that there might be some quality control problems there, with the sudden conversion of so many colleges and polytechnics to university status in that and in ensuing years.

Universities created after the early '60s are often referred to as "plate glass" schools. Before that you have "red brick" universities (originally 6, but more are considered by that term. The University of Leicester is one of those.) Then there are the ancients.

The rankings seem to correlate with this lineup, which may give it an organic basis, or it may be a reflection of the old guard discriminating against the newcomers. Perhaps a bit of both.

 

OK, fine, so substitute a more prestigious university offering a PhD by Published Works. How about the University of Westminster? University of Warwick? What about the University of Kent? All of them advertise a PhD by published works for people outside of the US who are not graduates. Are they not "good universities" or are you simply unaware of them?

 

Back in its earliest days, the Union (through its Union Graduate School) had a 12-month minimum. (It also had a 30-day entry colloquium and a 10-day "terminar" at the end of one's program.) This was the shortest I've seen for a program that went on to become accredited.

The terminar is gone, the entry colloquium is far shorter, and the time-in-program minimum is now 3 years.

The University of Leicester's Doctor of Social Science has a 4.5-year minimum.

 

Bruce: "...So, yes, employers are ignorant for the most part about accreditation..."

John: Rich Douglas's first doctoral research examined in detail what corporate HR managers knew about degree mills and accreditation. My one word summary of his research: "Clueless."

If one wants to find people in big jobs with fake degrees, go no further than LinkedIn. A search for the fake "Almeda University" just now found an astonishing 5,177 people using that degree.

 

I'd be willing to bet that if we polled the people who hired them we'd find at least a handful who also had something nasty to say about the University of Phoenix, though.

 

You've mentioned this a couple of times. I don't doubt it's true that there are people with huge misconceptions of distance learning in general as well as some specific schools. But my research also suggested that a substantial-sounding name--even one from a blatant diploma mill--was better than a nontraditional name on a legitimate and accredited school. Evoking geography (cities, states,) or implying a government connection (sounding like a state college, for example) helped get over on people, too.

The "clueless" respondents to my research were members of SHRM.

 

Oh, I agree. In fact, I believe it was in the University of South Chicago thread where I pitched some totally legit sounding diploma mill names.

And, incidentally, it wasn't an accident that I chose Colorado Technical University over American InterContinental University.

My point was simply that a lot of the hatred for for-profits is not, in fact, a hatred based upon careful analysis of a school. The media said something was "bad" and so people jump on board. It isn't limited to HR. It isn't limited to education.

Let me give you a fun anecdote. Remember when President Obama said he wanted to strip 529 College Savings Plans of their tax advantages because the rich use them to front-load contributions (he did as well)? People were pissed. All over the internet the vitriol spewed from the anonymous trolls calling for an end to this rich guy tax haven. Well, I wasn't happy about this. I have two 529 plans. And I (somehow) convinced my extended family to give heavily to those plans in lieu of tons of toys my kids don't need. Without the tax advantages the plans are useless. I would have been better off investing in a mutual fund. Even in person people were talking about these "evil" plans. When I pointed out to one such person that I had two of them and such a change would really hurt me, and the college savings I worked so hard to lay the groundwork for, she replied rather condescendingly "Oh no, only rich people put money in them. I don't even think you can get one unless you're a 1%er. You must have something else." She hated the thing that the Huffington Post told her to hate. Really no differently than those who hate the things that Fox News tells them to hate. Ignorance is not a partisan issue and it seldom focuses on a single interest.

People hate for-profits for being overpriced and offering a shoddy education. But many of those people have no problem with a non-profit school that costs even more and offers your kid a degree in popular culture. But they'll still make fun of American Military University even though the degrees are incredibly affordable and of high quality. It gets downright obnoxious when they then turn around and hire someone with a "degree" from Almeda, Atlantic International University or any number of others like them.

Though I do have a special place in my heart for Buxton University from which my childhood beagle managed to graduate years after his death.

 

The fake degree results on LinkedIn really make me lose whatever faith I had left in humanity and institutions that are asleep at the wheel, hiring these losers while hordes of people who played by the rules are unemployed, underemployed, and were potentially passed over in favor of a fake degree holder.

 

Unconscionability of K? That old dinosaur? Was a fine idea and one with which I agree, but alas, there have been few takers indeed in the federal courts of appeals to follow the precedent that the pluck of Ora Lee Williams established. One can only wish that doctrine was commonly applied by the courts--but alas, no!

 

Warwick is ELITE, would fit right in with the Ivies, maybe Dartmouth or Brown, in that range.

 

The entire reason why GMA focused on Columbia State University was that it never existed, it was literally a pay the fee and get your diploma operation. The expose was also careful to point out that it's entirely possible (even back then) to earn a totally legitimate degree online, using Cleary College/University (where the fake Ph.D. taught) as an example.

 

Former polytechic, true, but "one step up from a degree mill"? Hey, willing to accept hyperbole here, but that lampoons the concept. Maybe "one step up from typical U.S. for-profit" would be more appropos (and for my DL brethren, I do not mean to say a typical U.S. for profit can be compared with a mill), two steps down from a red brick, one step down from a plate glass, whatever, but "mill" and "poly" do not belong in the same sentence--Sunderland, MDX, et. al. are at least legitimate PhD-granting institutions with a B&M presence, a bona fide on site student body and what would be referred to in the U.S. as plenty of AQ faculty. And FWIW, Sunderland is about to crack the top 100 according to the UK tables.

I'm doing research for a journal article on this very point right now, gathering data, working up a massive spreadsheet describing the properties of each program in the UK. Some solid UK universities offer a PhD by Publications or Published Work for outside candidates, here are a handful of the better ones, some have already been mentioned here by others:

Warwick
Manchester Met
Stirling
Kent
Glasgow Caledonian
Coventry
Oxford Brookes

 

A PhD by Publications in the UK, Norway, Australia, NZ etc. is the culmination of years of research and peer-reviewed pubs, typically including quantitative research and covered by a 10,000 to 20,000 word summary/lit review linking the articles to form a cohesive body of research. The 10,000+ word overview may take months, but it's the tip of an iceberg. This is a legit method of earning a PhD in the view of all but some provincial U.S academics.

 

Back on topic.

Two for-profit universities owned by the Apollo Education Group will stop including mandatory arbitration clauses in students’ enrollment agreements, the company announced on Thursday. Students at the University of Phoenix and Western International University will not have arbitration clauses in their enrollment agreements as of July 1, according to a news release.e Apollo Education Group will stop including mandatory arbitration clauses in students’ enrollment agreements, the company announced on Thursday. 2 For-Profit Universities Will Cut Arbitration Clauses From Enrollment Agreements – The Ticker - Blogs - The Chronicle of Higher Education

 

Back on topic?

Are you attempting to stand in the way of the time-honored tradition of hijacking threads on fora? For shame.

 

Once a thread has strayed off-topic it becomes difficult to get it back on track. It reminds me of the Buddhist concept of "herding the ox"

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