Why Trident's Accreditation is NOT in Jeopardy

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Stu_Dent, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. hipsociety

    hipsociety New Member

    Kind of on subject; I had an interview with the US Office of Personnel Management last Friday and was asked if my Trident degree will be conferred by March 2012.
  2. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    What did you say? How did they react? etc.

  3. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I guess they want you to get it before the end of the world happens? I doubt that it has anything to do with this.
  4. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    That's true. It could be that the job required a XXdegree to be conferred by 3/12 as a requirement of the job.

  5. hipsociety

    hipsociety New Member

    I told her I was in the degree audit phase, and as soon as I complete my final session in September they will confer my degree. She nodded her head and said, "It takes a lot of discipline to receive a degree completely online; you must have excellent time-management skills".
  6. hipsociety

    hipsociety New Member

    Maybe, however the closing date on the Job announcement is listed as "open", so there isn't any reason I should need my degree prior to any specific date.
  7. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    This is a new argument, that the data on the past issuance of "show cause" letters should be taken into account. The proponent of this argument claims that these data give us a basis on which to develop an expectation of the outcome. He claims that most schools receiving such a letter lose their accreditation therefore it is likely that this will happen to TUI.

    Superficially this may seem like a strong argument but i'd suggest that may be misleading for the following reasons:

    1. The proponent of the argument commendably suggests we look at the data, yet as another poster has already observed, provides none.

    2. He argues that show cause letters emerge as a result of a stage-based process during which, for institutions to reach the "show cause" letter stage, they must have repeatedly failed to achieve whatever requirements were previously being imposed on them. That is not the case for TUI. There has been no sequence of stages, which makes the TUI case unusual and exceptional. If the case of TUI is unusual and exceptional only similar past causes are an appropriate guide in this instance.

    3. As I have argued previously, the specific issues which led to the show cause letter issued to TUI are known, and fixing them should not be an insurmountable problem for the institution. If the past is to be a reliable guide for the future then we need to look at data on similar instances, where similar types of problems have led to the sudden issuance of a "show cause" letter and not just blanket data on all show cause letters where institutions have repeatedly failed a sequences of stage as clearly such institutions which fail a sequence of hurdles may be very poor candidates to retain accreditation.

    Given the above, for past events to be a guide it would be helpful to have data on relevant similar situations, i.e. not just issuance of "sc" letter - outcome data, but that and the nature of the associated problem. I don't have such data, but the poster suggests that he does. Let's then see that data so that we can conduct the kind of analysis he suggests is useful.

    Failing having that data I repeat that:

    1. The problems at TUI are known and fixable.
    2. The consequences of not fixing them would be devastating for TUI.
    3. Therefore TUI will do whatever it takes to fix them.
    4. The impact on students and faculty of WASC not accepting the fixes would be severe.
    5. Given 3. and 4. WASC will accept the fixes.
    6. Therefore accreditation will not be lost.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2011
  8. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    Although I have responded to the basic argument regarding the data I did want to take a moment to reflect on the irony of this post above which basically argues:

    1. We have no relevant current information so everything we say is "conjecture" (as though conjecture is necessarily "bad" - Conjecture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
    2. There is data on past "show cause" letters which shows that retaining accreditation is difficult.
    3. No data is presented so (by implication therefore) just take my word for it,
    4. Therefore TUI will lose its accreditation.

    That's quite a devastating conclusion based on... what exactly: Ignore "conjecture", let's listen instead to a misguided interpretation of largely irrelevant data? Hmmm... let's not.
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    No one has said that. Nobody knows whether or not the accreditation will be lost until it happens... nor has anyone made any arguments (maybe you need to look up the definition of an argument?). If you happen to know, then my only logical conclusions are that either you work for WASC or that you are a prophet and have been given foreknowledge of events from God himself.

    Again, you are arguing (well, you are trying to argue...) over whether or not the Yankees will beat the Red Sox. I already declared you the winner- what more do you want?
  10. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I think TUI will lose it for sure. I know this for a fact. I'm sorry to all of the current students, you're all going to have to find a new school.
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I have to believe that you are expressing an opinion, not a fact. If you are in the possession of specific information then you should just say it or not say it. If you're just expressing an opinion then you should not use such terms as "I know this for a fact."
  12. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I had a vision.
  13. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member


    "it seems likely that Trident *will* lose its accreditation"

    "Once "show cause" is invoked, The road to perdition is almost certain."

    "From my communication and sources, it seems as though Trident University is more focused on preparing for closure of the University than implementing changes to meet the WASC requirements for continuing accreditation."

    If you prefer, amend 4. to read "Therefore TUI is likely to lose its accreditation".

    The point is that the argument regarding data is mangled and unsupported by any relevant data, whichever negative conclusion, definitive or tentative, the poster was trying to reach.
  14. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    Interesting thread. Stu_Dent - you bring up some good points, but do you have to be such a jerk? This is the Internet, so relax and take it down a notch or two.
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I will admit my quote:

    "Once "show cause" is invoked, The road to perdition is almost certain."

    was a bit morose, but I was inspired by Dante's Inferno. :smile: I could split hairs and state I added ALMOST as a proviso, but I won't (even though I just did). I hope your opinion is correct actually.

    Good luck,

    Abner :smile:
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    What sort of substances were you on when you had your vision? :banana::banana::banana::banana:
  17. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Yes. For your consideration, I have bolded the relevant words to your quotes below.
    To say that TUI will lose accreditation and that it will likely lose accreditation are two completely different things. You keep on moving back and forth between discussing one or the other as it seems convenient to you.

    My freakin goodness, I'm sick of this. I'm not even going to open this thread anymore. You don't deserve my attention.
  18. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I don't know but right now I'm seeing dancing banana's so I know it's not good.
  19. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    For reasons which you have made clear your attention is not likely to be of the slightest interest to anyone who is concerned about the current situation at TUI.

    What concern me are the staff and faculty at TUI, who are working hard to deal with a crisis, as well as the current and future students of TUI, all of whom might be affected by the opinions expressed on this board.

    I am interested to see the historical data on "show cause" letters, causes and outcomes which is claimed to support the prediction that the university will lose its accreditation. To date none has been provided.
  20. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I have just banned you..shill
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2011

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