1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The University of Wisconsin-Platteville has educated engineers for over 150 years and has earned a national reputation as an excellent engineering institution. UWP graduates are employed at many of the largest engineering organizations in the US, such as Boeing, Northrop Grumman, CH2M Hill, Bemis, John Deere, Rockwell Collins, and many more.

    Designed with practicing engineers in mind, the online Master of Science in Engineering program (MSENGR) develops skills in advanced mathematics, engineering management, technical communications, and computer applications. After completing the program, graduates will be prepared to assume additional responsibilities in their organization.

    To gain full admission to the MSENGR program, students should have

    A bachelor’s degree in engineering from a nationally or regionally accredited institution recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). International degrees will be evaluated on an individual basis. Students with a technical bachelor’s degree are encouraged to apply.
    An undergraduate grade point average (GPA) of 2.75 or higher, or 2.90 on the last 60 credits taken at the degree-granting institution. Students who do not qualify for admission in full standing may be admitted on a trial enrollment justified by the admitting department and approved by the Dean of the School of Graduate Studies.
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Here's one scenario that might be understandable. If I took the cert program in motorcycle repair from Penn Foster then I might follow it with a business degree and choose Penn Foster again because of familiarity. If my goal was to open my own mororcycle shop then there might not be be any real reason this degree couldn't work well for me.
  3. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    I think when the average person looks for a school, they don't recognize the difference between RA and [all of the others]. So they just go for an "accredited" degree without realizing the importance of the specific accreditation.

    I think DETC degrees can certainly have merit and value, but I think the historic differential (price, convenience, flexibility) between DETC and RA degrees has largely gone away. Also, even though the majority of DETC schools are for-profit, DETC schools are still cheaper than their for-profit RA counterparts. However, if you look around, you can usually find a state school somewhere that's RA that offers a similar DL degree for a comparable price to most DETC degrees, and, increasingly, with the same flexibility you'd formerly find only with DETC programs.

    So these days, I think the reasons for choosing DETC over RA are becoming fewer and fewer.

    Another trend I'm seeing right now in terms of the schools that advertise a lot, is schools accredited by ACICS, which is a legit but rather off-brand DoEd accreditor. Some of these schools are honest about their third-tier accreditation, but most intentionally obfuscate or confuse the issue; my understanding is that there are few, if any, RA schools that will recognize ACICS degrees or credits, or allow their transfer, yet many of these schools charge a fortune -- substantially more than what you could find with an RA program -- to their students.

    I'm hopeful that there will be some form of clean up of the worst of the abuses, but honestly, given that a large portion of the for-profit schools are owned by equity firms who, in turn, are owned by the large banks, I'm not terribly optimistic about real reform.
  4. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I can't imagine choosing a school simply because it's DETC accredited. But I might choose a DETC school because I like one of its programs.

    To tell the truth, I can't really think of any situations where I'd choose an RA school just because it's RA either. It's always going to be the program that initially catches my eye. Accreditation will be one of the variables that I consider when deciding whether or not to enroll, but it won't necessarily be the most important consideration.
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Of course they don't. The elitist pecking order doesn't actually make very much sense, so it's no surprise that ordinary prospective students wouldn't find it intuitive.

    And does that state school offer independent study? When you call them are they responsive? Do they focus on the real world aspects of their curricula?

    Third tier? What was the second tier? And while one interpretation is that they're nefariously obfuscating the issue, another is simply that they understand that the vast majority of prospective students won't understand the difference between regional and national accreditation even if it's explained to them, so rather than confuse the issue, they simply say they're accredited, which is, after all, true.

  6. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Well, I agree, but it can be explained in a sentence or two.

    Some do, some don't. Same with the DETC and third-tier schools. I don't think one can make an accurate broad statement about service delivery, responsiveness, etc from any accreditation tier of school.


    Really hard to argue it's in the same class as RA (nor do I wish to start another round of perennial arguments on that topic.)

    I'd agree with that, except that, since I've been going through hundreds of schools websites and reading accreditation statements over the past few months, all but a very tiny handful say something like "We are fully accredited by the North Central Association, which is recognized by the US Department of Education." Most go on to briefly explain that tier of accreditation. Likewise, most DETC and ACICS schools have similar statements. But only a very, very few schools take the shady approach that Everest has done of saying "We're accredited by a US DOEd recognized accreditor" and failing to mention which one, and intentionally instructing their information people to tapdance around the issue.
  7. alvinjaques

    alvinjaques New Member

    Few students like the online school and the flexibility it offers so they tend enroll. But some times it is the need of the hour. But If you go to accredited online school then there isn't any difference. But provided the accreditation should be from reputed institution. For those people who desire a legal , accredited degree program that is eligible for federal financial aid and whose circumstances do not require a degree from a regionally accredited institution.
  8. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I don't know that ACICS is a tier lower than DETC. ACICS tends to accredit career and technical schools, but actually has broader scope, since it can accredit both on-ground and online programs. ACICS may have its eye on the doctoral market, as I was recently contacted by the president of a college that offers a Psy.D. and who was in discussions with ACICS.
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I agree. If he'd said ACCSC I might have gone for it, but I've always thought of DETC and ACICS as reasonably comparable.

    Anyway, I was going to respond, but it turned out to be so long that I wrote a pair of blog posts instead, here and here.

  10. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    And excellent blog posts they are.
  11. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    There are many reasons to pick a DETC school over an RA school other than tuition costs: delivery modality, available seats in program, term flexibility, term start dates, and program content, etc. The old "everything NA has already been made available through RA DL" generalization is mostly hot, odorous vapors... ;) The pricing and availability of many RA DL programs within the dominant white culture is tantamount to denial of service to some ethnic and under-served demographics.
  12. joewill68

    joewill68 New Member

    Good point Dave! I could not have said it any better. All of the reasons that you stated are exactly why I switched from Liberty University's RA accredited doctoral program to California Coast University's NA accredited doctoral program. I just finished my first course with CCU, and that course was just as rigorous and writing intensive as any of the doctoral courses that I took at Liberty.

    By the way, I am a high school principal in GA, and the Georgia Professional Standards Commission confirmed that they would accept my doctorate from CCU when I complete the program.
  13. Ruble

    Ruble New Member

    I agree with you 110%. I attended Columbia Southern (DETC)because of the cost and the fact that the military base where I was stationed was pushing it so heavily.

    I used that degree to get into Liberty's Ed.D. program. Although I received my Masters certification in teaching from the University of Tennessee, the entire decision for entrance into LU was based of the CSU degree. Looking back, I probably would have chosen an RA degree if I had been aware of the difference, but up to this point, it has served me very well.

    Piggybacking off what Bill said, there are quite a few DETC degrees I would love to check out. The HMU DA looks really interesting.
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not surprised to hear that the CCU doctorate will meet your needs but I also wouldn't be surprised if someone else wrote in an said that their school system requires an ra degree. It would be interesting to hear someone in a position of authority in such matters articulate the reason for not accepting DETC degrees.
  15. Ruble

    Ruble New Member

    The State of Tennessee will not. Their reason for doing so was, "That's the way it's always been." I've heard through a friend that legislature was introduced to accept any accredited degree but I found no evidence.

    TNDOE: Additional Degree/Endorsement to a TN Teaching License is a link to the Tennessee licensing site.
  16. imalcolm

    imalcolm New Member

    DETC Bachelor's accepted for police chief position:
    DeKalb native to be named police chief  | ajc.com
  17. CRS0410

    CRS0410 New Member

    I chose a DETC school for the price and convenience. I want to become licensed as a Marriage and Family Therapist in California. I looked at a regionally accredited school which required 2 weekends a month for 48 credits at about $900/month not including fees, parking (Los Angeles), gas (I live 6 hrs from the school), and the enormous price of books. That's about $45,000 but easily, easily more.

    The school I chose is nationally accredited, on the Department of Education's Positive List, and will allow me to sit for the board exam and receive a California license. It's $295/credit about $15,000 plus book costs.

    But, even if I roll into their PsyD program, I could never work for the Veteran's Administration as a psychologist or work at other types of jobs that require a regionally accredited degree.

    I guess you have to have a specific goal in mind and see if the school is a good fit. I believe in the DETC and making education more affordable and available for all.
  18. nj593

    nj593 Member

    I would double check that.. Even if you called sometimes they just dont care to look and will say yes. DETC in the norm is not accepted for any psychology related licensing. Atleast that was my experience and was my main reasons for career changes. Wasnt worth the money in the end because my license would not pay off to make 40k a year. Anywho, really check again with the board. I know Cali is different from other states with licensing I.E. attorneys but, I would imagine that therapist would be the same across.

  19. nj593

    nj593 Member

    Also to add go to section B of statue 4999.12 of California MFT and LPCC licensing board from my understanding of reading it. It states (b) “Accredited” means a school, college, or university accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, or its equivalent regional accrediting association." Here is the link for their licensing requirements http://www.bbs.ca.gov/pdf/publications/lawsregs.pdf hope this helps.

  20. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    The reason I made the statement about ACICS had to do with an article I read (can't find the reference at the moment but I'll look for it) on transferability of ACICS-accredited degrees. Apparently there are a number of (mostly for-profit, I believe) schools popping up on the radar that are offering degrees in subject areas where traditionally people have gone to B&M schools. The article was talking about students going for associates degrees with the intention of transferring to a B&M RA school. The problem has been in the recognition by the RA schools of the ACICS degrees. According to the articles, very, very few students have had success with transfer of credits or degrees from ACICS schools to RA. And, of course, the admissions sales counselors at the schools often neglect to clarify this shortcoming, even when the students ask specifically about whether the credits will likely transfer.

    DETC seems to be making headway in this area, but I had not heard the same about ACICS. Does anyone know of any data (even anecdotal) about ACICS credit/degree acceptance by RA schools?

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