What is a diploma mill ?

I MUST say that for a degree mill, their website is rather impressive...

 

You'd be surprised. There have been a lot of businesses-masquerading-as-schools that have probably spent thousands of dollars making very impressive looking websites. If you think about it, it's a great investment, spend 5 grand on a website, get one student, and you've paid for the entire website.

Or there are the 'schools' such as, I think, Ratchford U, that simply used a website snaking tool to copy another school's entire website, search-and-replace the school name, delete all location references, change out a couple graphics, and then put the site up as their own. Somewhere in our archives, we have copies of a couple of fake school websites where they've done exactly that.

 

I had a chat with Must this morning, they told me that I need 14 classes to complete a B.A. Must told me that without seeing me transcripts.

 

I decided to join the party and have a chat with a MUST counselor...enjoy!

The grammatical errors from the counselor remind me a lot of the scam emails from Nigeria...


Chat Information

You are now chatting with 'Ken Baker'

Ken Baker: yes ben ?

Ben: I really like the price for this school and I am really tempted to start up, but I am worried about your accreditation... I have never heard of the IAO... what other schools are accredited by them?

Ken Baker: well

Ken Baker: THERE ARE TOW THINGS

Ken Baker: pOPS ( pOINT OF PARITY ) AND pODS ( POINT OF DIFFERENCE)

Ken Baker: Must is fully accredited and recognized

Ken Baker: Nationally

Ken Baker: this is the point of parity like any other university in US

Ken Baker: but it is fully recognized Internationally as well by IAO

Ben: what other schools are accredited by the IAO?

Ken Baker: that is the point of difference

Ken Baker: you need to contact them they wil give you the list

Ken Baker: all the schools

Ken Baker: dealing inside and out side US at the same point of time

Ben: I have heard of the DETC and other regional accrediting bodies, but never the IAO

Ken Baker: needs to be internationally accredited

Ken Baker: those are egional

Ben: so regional is not as good as international?

Ken Baker: this is Innternational

Ken Baker: Regional is good

Ken Baker: but it only deals with in US

Ken Baker: international deals both inside and out side US

Ben: what other international schools are accredited by the IAO?

Ken Baker: this information is with IAO

Ken Baker: not me

Ken Baker: you can call them for assistance regarding that

Ben: what is their website where I can find out?

Ken Baker: We are Nationally and Internationally Recognized and accepted

Ben: recognized and accepted is not the same as accredited

Ken Baker: IAO

Ken Baker: GO on the link and call them

Ben: 2 things

Ben: I do not see any schools listed on their website and they do not have an office location listed on their website either

Ben: that seems odd to me

Ben: I just want to make sure that I am not getting a worthless degree

Ken Baker: i gave you the link

Ken Baker: of our

Ken Baker: page

Ken Baker: offcourse they donot leak out the information for each and every school status

Ken Baker: you can simply go to the home page

Ken Baker: of them

Ben: I went to the home page... there is no real information on there

Ken Baker: My friend i am not representing them

Ken Baker: you can call them at there working hours

Ken Baker: and they will guide you

Ben: but you are accredited by them and yet you can't name one other school that is also accredited by them

Ben: is Harvard?

Ben: Yale?

Ben: Oxford?

Ben: any foreign school?

Ken Baker: check out there fee , if you can afford them then join them

Ken Baker: there are foriegn schools

Ken Baker: but here i according to university policy

Ken Baker: i cannot name any as i am reperesnting

Ken Baker: i am telling you the best solution to call them on there wroking hours

Ken Baker: and get the information

Ben: This just seems a little shady to me? I have never heard of an organization that does not have a central administration office and that does not list their office address on their website

Ben: MUST and IAO do not provide this information

Ken Baker: we do provide you the adresses

Ken Baker: and locations

Ken Baker: after your enrollment

Ken Baker: according to your state

Ben: so it is a secret until enrollment? why is that?

Ken Baker: lissen , if you have to ask any thing regarding a course or enrollment

Ken Baker: i can assist you wiht ?

Ben: these are pretty important questions to me... I want to go to a school where the degree is legitimate and recognized within the United States

Ken Baker: offcourse it is

Ken Baker: check out with USED

Ken Baker: donot go further

Ken Baker: thanks

Ken Baker: take care

 

I think that USED is United States Education Department ? Then Ken Baker asked to confirm from that ? If they are approved by USED, what does it mean ?

 

You guys are giving them hell. I played with them a little, but you guys are brutal. ;-)

 

I decided to take it to another level, and see if I could just outright buy a degree from MUST University.


I chose the screen name Troy McClure (from The Simpsons) and told Ken Baker I live in Oregon (famed for their diploma mill list). Notice how he gets my name wrong from the outset, and the conversation only gets better:

Ken Baker: tony !! how may i assist you with your enrollment ?

Troy McClure: I am interested in the BA in Journalism program

Ken Baker: ok your highest level of education

Ken Baker: ?

Troy McClure: I have about 60 college credits. How quickly would I be able to get a BA?

Ken Baker: with in a year time

Ken Baker: with 60 college credits

Troy McClure: Oh, I really need to get a BA faster than that...

Ken Baker: you can , its self paced

Ken Baker: i told you the average time

Ken Baker: whats your full name and email adress ?

Troy McClure: Oh, OK. Would I be able to finish within four months? I need to have the degree for work?

Ken Baker: well see its like 12 courses you need to study more

Troy McClure: Oh, how long does each course take?

Ken Baker: each course on usual time takes 3 to 4 weeks

Ken Baker: if you want to put some time in and want to do it on fast pace

Ken Baker: say 2.5 course a month means in 5 months

Ken Baker: yes you can do that

Troy McClure: The courses are online? How much work is involved in each course?

Ken Baker: Well they are totally online

Ken Baker: the monent you gewt registered you are given a student area with log in and passwrod

Troy McClure: I was hoping I could get credit for life experience for the rest of the credits I need. Do you do that?

Ken Baker: from there you need to go through the topics and give quizes after 3 or 4 topics

Ken Baker: in total you study about 18 topics

Ken Baker: and give 5 quizes

Ken Baker: afterwards

Ken Baker: you give your final test about all the topics

Ken Baker: yes not for all the courses

Ken Baker: but you can get fro few courses

Troy McClure: How much credit can I get for life experience?

Ken Baker: how much is your total work expereince ?

Troy McClure: 20 years

Ken Baker: ok that nice

Ken Baker: wait let me put hte information in

Ken Baker: your full name , email and phone number

Troy McClure: Well, i'd like to know what kind of credit I can get, and how much I would have to pay for the whole course

Ken Baker: you need study 6 courses in total instead of 12

Ken Baker: the specialized courses only

Ken Baker: not the general courses

Troy McClure: So I could get my BA in 2.5 months?

Troy McClure: with life experience?

Ken Baker: $149 to enroll with $R99/month
(Hmm...they take Rand. Are they in South Africa?)

Ken Baker: 3 weeks a course means around 3 months

Troy McClure: Oh, OK

Troy McClure: well, I'm in the USA, if I'm paying in Rand does that mean my degree will be accepted here?

Ken Baker: yes it will be

Ken Baker: absolultley

Ken Baker: should we procced with enrollment ? so i can show you your student area ?

Troy McClure: I want to go to Columbia University after I get my BA, so I must ensure the degree will accredited

Troy McClure: or they will not accept me

Troy McClure: So total cost for my BA will be $449? Is that US dollars or Rand?

Ken Baker: $us

Ken Baker: They will its natioanlly recognized as well as internationally accepted

Troy McClure: oh, OK. Is that acceptable by US universities?

Ken Baker: yes

Ken Baker: its a US degree so offcourse it will accpeted in US and aborad

Troy McClure: Is the school located in the US?

Ken Baker: we have admin offcies in 23 states and 11 ciuntries

Troy McClure: I'm in Oregon. Do you have an office here where I could make payments?

Ken Baker: payments are done onoine

Ken Baker: online

Ken Baker: do you have a credit or debit card ?
(wow, he's persistent. He really wants my credit card number!)

Troy McClure: Do you accept US Federal Student aid?

Ken Baker: depends on case to case
(WTF?)

Ken Baker: and placements left in university

Troy McClure: Does MUST have a federal student ID number I can submit for reimbursement?

Ken Baker: yes we do proivde that

Ken Baker: once you are enrolled
(Oh REALLY!)

Troy McClure: OK, that is good. I will need that before I enroll, though.

Troy McClure: It is a federal requirement for the forms
(several minutes go by)

Troy McClure: hello?


So, for $449 you could have a BA in Journalism from MUST University in just three months!

 

Guys, if some university is approved by United States Education Dept, is it legal, accrediated or not ?

This MUST university clamis that we can check their confirmation as : "you can call any educationd board in US for confirmation"

 

You're still asking this question after reading the chat transcripts???

This school is bogus...a fake...not real...not really accredited by anybody but themselves...phoney....bad..as in, not good. Stay away!

 

Thought I would ask about the DBA in Hospitality Management:

Chat start time Apr 16, 2009 9:18:35 PM EST
Chat end time Apr 16, 2009 9:34:37 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:16:02
Operator Ken Baker

Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [email protected] at the end of your chat.
info: You are now chatting with 'Ken Baker'
Ken Baker: Hi
Richard Pryor: I am interested in your DBA in Hospitality Management
Ken Baker: ok
Ken Baker: your full name
Richard Pryor: I have an MBA from Preston University
Ken Baker: ok
Ken Baker: full name
Ken Baker: email adress ?, phone number ?
Richard Pryor: Richard Pryor
Ken Baker: ?
Richard Pryor: [email protected]
Ken Baker: phone number ?
Richard Pryor: Aren't we getting a bit personal at this point?
Ken Baker: total work expereince ? as in number of years ?
Ken Baker: arent you looking to enroll?
Richard Pryor: I just want to know about the DBA in Hospitality - I have 15 years experience in the industry, and an MBA
Richard Pryor: from Preston University
Ken Baker: you have ot tkae 3 courses
Ken Baker: 5 short thesis of your choice related to program
Ken Baker: ando ne long thesis
Ken Baker: after completion of 5 short thesis
Ken Baker: one long thesis"]
Richard Pryor: Do you have a list of faculty for me to contact concerning my thesis proposal - I want to teach and it is important for me to get the degree quickly.
Ken Baker: based on avialability we will
Richard Pryor: I'm looking for someone with publishing experience
Ken Baker: provide you teachers to assis t you with your thesis
Richard Pryor: OK - but since I want to teach, it is important for me to talk with my supervisor about who I will be working with - need to do this for tuition reimbursement
Richard Pryor: Once I have this info - I can complete the paperwork and send a check for the tuition
Richard Pryor: I'd also like to discuss with your faculty my proposed thesis topic before committing to an DBA

SEVERAL MINUTE PAUSE

Richard Pryor: Hello?
Ken Baker: we will provide you assistance
Ken Baker: after enrollment regarding this
Richard Pryor: That's not going to work - how familiar are you with doctoral work?
Ken Baker: thats how it works with Must
Richard Pryor: Please understand - I am a teacher looking to upgrade my credentials, I need to work within the system.
Ken Baker: call tomorrow morning
Richard Pryor: I need to explain in detail how my program will work, including possible faculty
Ken Baker: they might helo yu to interact with some teacher
Ken Baker: anything else i can assist you with
Ken Baker: >
Richard Pryor: Can you provide me with an e-mail address to the chair of the graduate school so I can send an abstract of my thesis proposal?
Richard Pryor: I want to get moving on this...

SEVERAL MINUTE PAUSE
Richard Pryor: I have to tell you that I am beginning to become skeptical

Session cut off by MUST

 

Okay! Thanks for catching that! I've usually seen it abbreviated USDE (U. S. Department of Education), but I guess I can now see, thanks to you, that USED = U. S. Education Department. Now, if I understood correctly, the part about "check them out with USED" meant, what?, checking out the legitimacy of an accrediting agency?, is that right? Well, if that was the question, then the answer is that any legit accrediting agency will be recognized by either the United States Department of Education www.ed.gov (the governmental recognizer for accrediting agencies) or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation www.chea.org (the private recognizer of accrediting agencies). That said, there might be a few unrecognized accrediting agencies, but that would usually be situations like where the accreditation agency is so new that it hasn't been around long enough to get official recognition yet (or some other rare special case).

 

Hey you guys are beyond beyond. It's just so good to see this stuff coming out into the light of day. Thanks for this.

engadnan - I'm sorry to be blunt but you need to wake up to the reality that if it looks cheap and easy it's because it's worhtless.

 

Richard Pryor... I love it!!!

Next time I am going to be Gene Wilder!

 

Darn! Meant to say a few unrecognized accrediting agencies that are legit (and, of course few meaning likely very few). Darn this 10-minute edit period!

 

Hey Kizmet, thanks for your comment. I am also not so blind that i follow this bogus university. I started this thread, but never expected that it would go so ahead But i like the way, all guys participated in this thread. Thanks to all.

Ted : Thanks for your comment also.

No doubt, MUST is a total fake.

 

Hmm. MUST University? Dr. Bear's Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally had a whole bunch of good info on how to tell if a school is legit. One entire chapter on accreditation. One entire chapter on state lecensing of schools. Somewhere in there there was also some good information on unaccredited schools. The info on unaccredited schools had info on things like how some unaccredited schools might be good schools and some are degree mills and how to tell the difference. Somewhere in all that there was a part about how there were certain signs that you could tell that an unaccredited school might be a mill. I don't remember how many signs there were or how many of those signs an unaccredited school had to meet before you could call it a mill. Anyways, one of those signs that an unaccredited school just might be a mill was that, often mills (or, should we say, schools with millish behavior) deliberately choose a name very close to a clearly legit (and well-regarded) school. Hmm. Anyone think of some examples? Um, the University of Missouri system (a very legit accredited university) used to have a branch campus called the University of Missouri at Rolla. This was the campus that had the el primo engineering programs of the U Mizzou system. Recently, the University of Missouri at Rolla changed its name to Missouri University of Science & Technology (abbreviated: MUST). Oh, it gets even more interesting. Not very long after UMR, with its prestigious engineering programs (some of them available by dl, by the way, like master's degrees in civil engineering and mining engineering, and probably a few others too) changes its name to MUST, along comes this new "internationally accredited" school called MUST University. Anyone think of any other examples of schools that just might be mills using names of much older and more prestigious legit universities? (Hint: Think about the names of some French schools we're all probably familiar with!)

 

Well, since the school is a joke, might as well use the name of a great comedian...

 

Ted,

How about:
http://www.must.edu.my/

The real MUST University.

Shawn

 

So, there's not just one but two real schools called MUST University ... Malaysia University of Science & Technology www.must.edu.my (the one that Shawn Capella Rocks identified) and Missouri University of Science & Technology www.mst.edu (the one that I identified) ... and then there's the one that walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and who knows???