What if the Electors Change their Vote on Monday? Could Hillary Reach 270?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by RAM PhD, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's been interesting to see so many left-liberals finally coming around on the decidedly libertarian notion that one should be able to reject the legitimacy of politicians who seek power over them.
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

  3. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Not playing nice? Kind of like how Harry Reid & the Democrats smugly changed the Senate rules to only need 51 votes for Senate confirmation when they were in power? That's certainly working out well now, isn't it?

    I don't know whether to ask if you were the kid who held his breath and stamped his feet when he didn't get his way, or if you have a full wardrobe of aluminum foil beanies.

    Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie
  4. Davewill

    Davewill Member

    I'm very glad that Reid did that. The Republicans had already declared war on Obama, it was not and could not have been made worse by getting at least some judges through the Senate. Plus the fall will be all the harder when the Republicans confirm Trump's Cuckoo cabinet with only Republican votes and they proceed to rob the country blind.
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I would say that you're being quite naïve in that matter.
  6. jhp

    jhp Member

    You can, but you would be wrong. But, let's keep the discussion on the subject versus me. There are too many presumptions in that "Chinese grab of the underwater drone was a direct response to Trump's diplomatic gaffe/phone call to the President of Taiwan".

    Of off top of my head -

    It presumes the Chinese went out looking for something to rub into the face of the US because Trump received a call from Taiwan.
    It ignores the Chinese have already started their encroachment on other nations territorial waters long before Trump was on the scene.
    It ignores that China always vies for US technology.
    It ignores that each previous president was tested by the Chinese, Bush with USN P-3 Orion, and Navy confrontation with small boats early Obama presidency and so on.
    It ignores the Cox Report.

    s/ Ignoring all of the above and multitude of others, you might be right. China decided to seize the LBS-G just to put Trump in his place, because they saw that Trump can be pushed around. Sort of drawing red-lines in the sand then never actually doing anything. Because they saw Trump is just whining and no action. Because he is unable to achieve anything he promised. /s
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This is well-reasoned response and shows a healthy attitude towards scrutiny of elected leaders.

    Seriously, AFAIK, all the business interests mentioned actually exist; it's not like you can hide a building. Also, it's a fact that doing business in certain countries (basically, everywhere outside the West proper) expose one to certain risks stemming from... let's say, business/political climate there, and requires certain... "cultural sensitivity and moral flexibility" and certain mental patterns. Certainly in a highly regulated space like real estate. This goes for both Trump Organization and say ExxonMobil. It's not to the discredit of such people, necessarily, but I'd be vary of them in positions of political power. We have a bunch of these in Eastern Europe. And at least by appearances, Trump looks like he belongs squarely in that group of "oligarchs"; actually he's more in-your-face than most of those. Less like a polished Petro Poroshenko, and more like an unreformed 90ies hustler like Ihor Kolomoisky (both figures with at least some redeeming qualities btw). These guys would be extremely out of place in Western politics.
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    What THIS seems to ignore is the nature of the gaffe; it's highly symbolic so China probably finds it very hard not to respond in some way. Taiwan is a problem China addresses by carefully avoiding mentioning it at all, as much as possible; Trump's messing with this (especially now when he's not in charge yet) is baffling in its pointlessness (his organization does explore building a hotel there though). Also, I find it hard to see exactly what kind of response US can muster in situation like this that would not be massively counterproductive.

    In other news, Russian-backed militants just renewed hostilities in Ukraine; 7 Ukrainian service members were killed in a 2-day battle. Trump gave Putin reasons to believe he's more likely to get away with stuff like this after Trump's in charge. Also, Aleppo. Thanks to Trump voters for making a responsible choice.
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I would just like to say all the lovely language here is aimed at evoking emotions, not actions. Call him a dictator or whatever else you want (follow your script) helps no one. No matter what Trump does he will be critiqued to death. He can talk to anyone he damn well pleases as the United States President. Should we bow down to red China anytime they make a demand? It's totally comical the reaction to him winning. The biggest phonies in the world are Democrats. Like China hunted down a drone and took it for the beifit of doing something to Trump? They have been taking that area over for years.

    Democrats lied about Rodney's tax returns and everything else yet that's ok. They changed rules and forced through legislation that has crippled our country yet Trump is a dictator? Obama care?

    Look in the mirror first and be reasonable, yes Trump should have reused his taxes, yet we still know nothing of Obama? Keep drinking the kool-aid my friends. If Sanders would have been her VP we would not even be having this conversation.
  10. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    Sorry for the typos, auto correct and a tiny screen are killing me today!
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Then don't complain when a conservative replaces Scalia on the SCOTUS, and a conservative fills 1-2 other seats now held by liberals.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Obama was entitled to replace Scalia; he was robbed on this one. Any vacancies in the next 4 years (or according to the Senate now, three) - sure, Trump won these. Sigh.
    Do you want to have the whole obstruction argument here? This thread may never end.
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Gotta love it when Trump supporter complains about "language". I thought you guys do not like "political correctness"?
    Nonetheless, it is too early to call Trump a "dictator". I'd go with "singularly unqualified for office"; how about that? He's also on a verge of earning the "Russian puppet" title, but I'd give it a month or so.
    Not just "someone". Taiwan is not just a partially-recognized state; the woman he talked to has title "President of the Republic of China". That government historically claims jurisdiction over all of China, and officially it never changed. So for PRC, Trump just talked to either a bitter enemy they fought (and defeated) in Chinese Civil War, or an impostor government directly challenging their authority. Of course, de facto they are two different countries now, but diplomatically it was never worked out. Therefore, I believe no one in the world officially recognizes both PRC and Taiwan; hence awkward arrangements like Taiwaneze athletes representing "China" at the Olympics. And Trump just bulldozed through this.
    Actually, no, as a President, he can't just talk to anyone he wants. As a private citizen, he could.

    Rodney who? It is a job of the party in power to pass laws even when the opposition thinks they stink. And since I live in Canada now and my primary health insurance id OHIP, which is government-run single payer system, you'd have to be more specific in your gripes than "Obama care". I think ACA didn't go far enough.
    (and yeah, my other insurance is ALSO government-run, a Public Service benefit plan).

    Actually, we have 16 years of tax returns of Obama, Biden, and Hillary; 7 years of Bush and Cheney, and 10 years of Pence. Jeb! released 34 years of returns. We really need to agree on the facts before discussing anything. For example, by all usual measures, the economy grew under Obama, violent crime is down for many years, and so is illegal immigration.
    We can speculate about what would happen with Sanders on the ticket; for starters we do not know if he even wanted to be a VP. I would prefer Warren, same caveat applying.
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    No, he was entitled to nominate a replacement, which the Senate chose to not consider. That's the Constitution in action.

    My point was that the Democrats seemed to be supremely arrogant and drunk with power when they imposed the 51-vote majority to confirm in the Senate, and now they have to live with the hangover of their own actions when they come to bite them in the behind in the next few years.
  15. Davewill

    Davewill Member

    The only "hangover" is in your head. The Republicans had already filibustered a record number of lower court nominees and were threatening not to allow a vote on Obama's attorney general. Faced with such ridiculous obstruction, the 51 vote move was completely justified and I haven't heard anyone on the Democratic side of the aisle regret doing it.

    Actually the constitution says he is entitled to APPOINT a replacement "with the advice and consent" of the Senate which duty the Senate refused to perform. Obama should simply have declared him appointed since the Senate did not advise him and say no. Anyway, I guess that YOU won't mind if the Dems succeed in blockading all of Trump's nominees for the entire term. It would just be "the Constitution in action."
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2016
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Of course not; politicians, and especially Democrats, never admit when they fuck up. I think it's genetically programmed into them.

    There's a HUGE difference between leaving a SCOTUS seat vacant for a few months right before a Presidential election where there will be a new President, and obstructing appointments for 4 years.

    The liberals just can't get their brains around the fact that the American people are tired of their agenda, their political correctness, and their bullying. They had a good run (8 years), but now it's time for the adults to run things.
  17. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    A cursing policeman. Now I've seen everything.
  18. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    Wait you are not even American are you decimon? What dog do you have in this fight?
  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Quite American.

    The one with the waggly tail.
  20. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I seem to recall you are not? We're you born here? Not that it's truly any of my business...

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