virtual degree

Discussion in 'The Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies' started by bing, Jul 24, 2001.

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  1. bing

    bing New Member

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    i noticed that their site says "Earn an internationally respected graduate degree from a fully recognized 31 year-old University, the Center of University Studies. The virtual degree is issued from the campus school resulting in the same international recognition for your degree as the on campus students. "

    the word virtual is very conspicuous to me. what is a virtual degree anyway? i think it means hypothetical in this case.
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    Of course, MIGS (or the CEU Graduate School, or the Sorbonne, or whatever it calls itself today) offers degree programs that are no more "virtual" than any other independent-study programs. The only thing that even comes close to resembling "virtual" is the use of e-mail. They don't offer classes (virtual or otherwise), conferencing, research tools, or anything else. Their website is used for promoting their programs, nothing more. There are no resources available (such as links to research sources like ERIC or Dissertation Abstracts), no software, nothing. Their "lounges" are inert and no longer listed on the website. (Due, no doubt, to the negative comments made by posters.)

    The term "virtual" means "in essence." When applied to higher education, it refers to the process of doing a degree program without all the traditional trappings (classrooms, libraries, and the like). It also connotes the use of modern technologies to deliver programs. MIGS does none of these.

    Even if one assumes that everything there happens as described by them (one big assumption, BTW), the process most closely resembles Walden University of, say, 1985, except without the residencies, standards, depth of faculty, sufficient administrative staff, etc.

    Maybe "virtual" means "ethereal" in this case. That was my observation. [​IMG]

    Rich Douglas
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman New Member

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    Here's my pragmatic explanation of what virtual means in this case. Virtual means that the owners of MIGS wish to start up a money making enterprise and they want to invest virtually zero dollars into it. They want to connect students that will pay tuitions with instructors that will be paid from those tuitions and keep the difference for themselves. I think "virtual" in this case applies to the actual investment in a school which apparently is virtually zero.

    (Disclaimer: I'm not an educator nor a distance education expert. I'm a monkey wrench that just wants to have fun.)
     
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    Except, of course, that you've described the situation accurately!

    This was one of my biggest complaints. They have a good idea, but won't execute it by investing in it. They hope to get by without any startup costs and build as tuitions come in. (That's not my opinion, that was told to me by those at MIGS.) According to Sheila Danzig, no one is on salary. Arias hasn't been paid (according to him). I imagine there haven't been enough revenues thus far to compensate Forman and that bunch, either. Gosh, I hope the person answering the phone picks up a regular check!

    As I said before, the website is without any useful resources for independent study. There is simply no investment; students and faculty are on their own. Yes, faculty will get paid a little from the student's tuition and fees. MIGS will make a profit. (Hard not to without any overhead.) But all the student is getting--besides guidance from his/her faculty mentor--is the diploma. There is no academic process to speak of, except what is designed by the student and mentor.

    The only purpose of the MIGS infrastructure is the issuance of the CEU diploma. And we're really not even sure if that is going to go properly.

    Rich Douglas
     
  5. bing

    bing New Member

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    Rich, what steps would be taken for the degree to be "properly issued" then? Do you have legal terms in mind or something else? If CEU issues the diploma wouldn't that be proper? I might have missed something along the thread here, as I have not been keeping up on this one closely.

    Bing
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    This all goes way back a few months. The question was raised as to whether or not the titulo would be issued from the Secretary of Education of Nuevo Leon, certifying the degree. (It's sort of a transcript and certification combined.) This is what is usually expected from a degree program at a Mexican university, regardless of what diploma is issued by the school. The Secretary of Education is also supposed to approve each MIGS student's learning contract, but that didn't happen in my case. I was sincerely concerned that I was going to do all that work for a diploma signed by Armando Arias and Bruce Forman, with a transcript issued from Fort Lauderdale. This may not have happened, but it's not like MIGS did anything to boost anyone's confidence in their "trust us" statements, including me.

    Rich Douglas, who doesn't trust them.
     
  7. bing

    bing New Member

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    i see. thanks for clearing that up. excellent point and a caveat for everyone looking at them.

    bing

     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman New Member

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    Well I do try to be a focused monkey wrench rather than a monkey wrench just itching to pop into just ANY machinery. [​IMG]
     
  9. bing

    bing New Member

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    And then again....There's always the possibility of slipping the secretary a some pesos for each diploma. We'll have to wait and see until they get someone graduated there.

    Bing


     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    Actually, it is a certificat of studies. But the principle is still the same: the school awards the diploma, but the degree comes from the Secretary of Education.

    One other thing that is confusing: I think the CEU is an autonomous school, which might mean the certificate of studies doesn't come from the Secretary of Education. (But MIGS says it does...it's all so muddled.) It may also be that the autonomous charter allows the CEU to add programs and degrees at will, rather than have them approved by the Secretary of Education. MIGS says that, too.

    Rich Douglas
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    With the high ethical standards which MIGS/CEU has already manifested, I couldn't imagine such a thing. [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  12. Peter French

    Peter French member

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    The following is now issued under the official CEU Graduate College letterhead ...

    Jose Cardenas Cavazos
    Vice Rector

    Greetings:

    I have been asked to write this message to students and faculty to clearly explain our authority to grant degrees.

    The Secretary of Education of the State of Nuevo Leon, the state of our incorporation and of our main campuses, has approved our entire educational curriculum through the doctorate level (traditional and virtual) including our distance learning programs.

    Further, the CEU enjoys an Autonomous Presidential Decree, obtained in 1970, that allows us to independently operate and add schools, divisions and degree programs within the University.

    Our degrees are issued by the Secretary of Education of the State of Neuvo Leon and are corroborated by the Secretary of Public Education in Mexico.

    After completion of a prospective students assessment package and learning contract we in turn submit the package to the Secretary of Education of the State of Nuevo Leon for individual approval for each student. Upon completion of the degree requirements within the time allocated by the Secretary of Education by way of approval of the time line in the learning contract, the Secretary of Education of the State of Nuevo Leon will issue their approved degree.

    Jose Cardenas Cavazos
    Vice-Rector
    Centro de Estudios Universitarios
     
  13. bing

    bing New Member

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    It sounds like it is spelled out but I would not want to jump in until they actually have awarded the doctorate there.

    Bing

     
  14. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

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    So we could say CEU has a virtual graduate school. I hope for those enrolled (are there any left?) that it doesn't vanish in to the ether.

    ------------------
    Best Regards,
    Dave Hayden
     
  15. Peter French

    Peter French member

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    Yes Dave, it has and always had. I am not sticking up for anyone involved, I am just explaining. Some people of this forum had and still have reservations about the party who brought everyone together - and i understand that. I have been brokering or assisting in the brokering of deals globally all of my life, so what happened here is nothing new, or wrong for that matter.

    However there was a high degree of unwarrented interference from certain members here who act as if God has given them the mission to rule the academic world and all degrees issued therein. It is simply another case of the age old problem, of '...a little knowledge is dangerous...' people don't owe this group or its members anything, and aren't required to explain what they had for breakfast, but you could easily come to the opinion that they do :)

    A certain contributor decided to do a degree at MIGS/CEU and seems like he had to be apart of the place. So overnight he becme the 'offical bearer of information' but in many cases he didn't know what he was talking about, and still doesn't - about CEU or post graduate education for that matter.

    I have no difficulty, and the above is what the arrangement was from the first sheet of paper I used in this project a couple of years ago.

    By all means wait until the first doctorate is issued. The more comment that is amde here, the more attention the institution gets and the more students they enroll.

    I smile....

    Peter French
    Australia
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not really, Peter! If this was the case, there would be no degree mills, no less-than-wonderful institutions and no chance of being suckered by a scam. Only good, solid, substantive educational opportunities, and when a guy was referred to as "Dr." you would know it was legitimate. [​IMG]

    Russell
    Who is planning to eat at the Outback Steakhouse this weekend. This is about as close as I will be to Australia!
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    Ah, Peter. It is safe to assume this thinly-veiled comment is directed towards me. Well, I enjoy the benefit of having completed a great deal of doctoral work in the study of nontraditional higher education (at a regionally accredited school). I also enjoy the benefit of being a doctoral candidate in the same subject (again, at a regionally accredited school). I, too, enjoy having worked in several higher education settings here in the U.S., both traditional and nontraditional. Finally, I have the "wonderful" experience of dealing with the misadventure that has been what you very recently still called MIGS. I resisted the calls of others who bared all its faults; I really believed in some of the people involved. Hell, I even thought Sheila handled herself pretty well, considering how out of her element she was. But to accost my knowledge and experience is both shallow and unnecessary. You'll fit right back in with "el MIGS." Enjoy.

    Rich Douglas

    Oh, and I don't have a doctorate from a "non-wonderful," unaccredited school. Can you say the same?
     
  18. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

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    Thanks Rich for keeping your reply reasonable and professional. It is hard when someone makes such a nasty uncalled for attack. My hat is off to you.

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    Best Regards,
    Dave Hayden
     
  19. Chip

    Chip Administrator

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    Peter French wrote:


    ... unwarrented interference from certain members here who act as if God has given them the mission to rule the academic world and all degrees issued therein.


    Peter,

    Please confine your comments to the subject at hand without attacking those you disagree with. Personal attacks toward other Degreeinfo participants, whether the person attacked is being named or not, are not appropriate.

    Thanks

    Chip
     
  20. Peter French

    Peter French member

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    ... and especially if he is one of the 'gang' ;-)



    ------------------
    Peter French,
    MEd MAcc (UNE) CMA
    Australia
     

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