Very unusual Doctorate at Harrison Middleton University (DETC school)

The point is how would a DA help someone land a job or advance in a company outside of academia?

 

Yes, they do.

 

You'll see if you follow upthread. The OP is interested in college teaching and asked about the DETC Doctor of Arts from HMU. Some of us were trying to discuss the OP's question in its context. I think the thread is being derailed with discussion of very different issues like, just now, the acceptance of NA (or non-AACSB) MBAs in private business.

 

Hmm. I didn't even know that ACICS schools were even qualified to offer the doctorate.

 

Where's the like button?

 

The OP's thread being discussed here does not mention teaching, but simply an interest in this degree so talking about teaching with this degree was added by others, and if you would have read what I said, most people with DETC degrees do not look to teach, so yes it is a "straw man".

 

A DA degree could be used by a Pastor as a continuing education degree requirements not to teach in academia.

 

She asked about teaching in other threads recently. Trying to be helpful, some of us who follow this board closely put those two things together.

We addressed the relevance of an NA liberal arts doctorate to college teaching in a thread asking about an NA liberal arts doctorate, by a poster interested in college teaching (per other recent threads). To say that discussing the acceptance of an NA liberal arts doctorate in college teaching in this context is a "straw man" strains my imagination.

I think those of us who discussed college teaching were being helpful and collegial to the OP.

 

Actually, a pastor would be far more likely to get a DMin to fulfill his continuing education requirements.

 

Friends, if there's a debate on which there's a DETC-friendly side, you'll very likely find me on the DETC-friendly side. This isn't one of those debates. At least it wasn't when we were addressing the degree the OP was asking about.

 

The poster's point ensued in the part you didn't quote.

The DA is a teaching degree. The DA as a degree was originated specifically to address the teaching of academic disciplines, as opposed to the Ph.D., which is designed to advance those disciplines in a scholarly manner.

Holding a doctorate can advance one's private practice or career tremendously, no matter what subject it's in. That is in great evidence. But if one set out to do this degree, how would this particular course of study and degree advance someone? That, combined with the fact that it is a teaching degree that would seem to qualify one to teach almost nowhere, is the question.

 

They are, and have a handful of schools. Same restriction as DETC regarding the kinds of doctorates they will allow their schools to offer, which makes me think that restriction is coming from either USDoE or CHEA.

 

No, it isn't, because the HMU doctorate is a DA, which is specifically designed for teaching.

 

I agree. I'm "DETC-friendly", too, outside of this board. But here we find some posters so caught up--because of their personal stakes in the question--that the debates become absurd.

I've been critical of DETC, but I'm way more critical of how certain RAs treat DL schools. (I'm looking at you, WASC and SACS!) And I wish DETC would step out beyond its current vision into what is really needed in DL--and what they really could become.

 

Here's some relevant parts of Ann's original post:

It appears to me like Ann was excited by this thing in large part because it's a broadly conceived program in the interdisciplinary humanities. She was excited by the program's content, in other words.

Post number two told her to use the search function. Post number three was this:

The dogs were released and off Degreeinfo went on its own never-ending and to my eye rather idiotic obsessions. Ann and her original interests were effectively ignored and forgotten. (There were a few exceptions. Caldog addressed H-M's size and its faculty list, for example, which were certainly relevant.)

The fact is that Degreeinfo just isn't very helpful (or even very friendly) towards DL students who have scholarly interests in more traditional academic subjects. It's basically become a vocational students' board these days. My sense is that many Degreeinfo participants, even those with advanced degrees (which is pretty appalling), can't even comprehend the idea of somebody having intellectual interests.

I can't picture anyone enrolling in a doctoral program just so they can maybe find some adjunct teaching jobs in the future. There are no end of second-job opportunities out there that are cheaper, easier and less expensive to prepare for. People like Ann enroll in programs like H-M's because they want to explore their subjects more deeply. If they ask about the prospects of adjunct teaching, that's icing on the cake. It's unlikely to be their primary motivation.

 

If anyone really thinks discussing professional application of the HMU DA in a variety of situations is off-topic to a discussion of the HMU DA, you might take this up with HMU. Here's the first sentence of HMU's own description of the degree:

From HMU's Program Objectives:

HMU itself puts outfront that this is a "professional" doctorate, and its objectives include "[preparing] the individual to become a teacher or professional with advanced training." HMU is selling this degree in a competitive marketplace. By the way, I believe HMU is for-profit. We're a consumer webboard whose primary subject is distance learning – I hope, not a fan club for distance learning providers.

Discussing the professional application of this degree is completely on point.

 

Caldog's mention of faculty credentials was in response to the exchange about what is and is not needed to teach at HM and other NA schools.

Getting a doctorate to teach at the post-secondary level and to be paid to be a researcher is not vocational training. The truth is that an NA doctorate and many distance doctorates will limit your opportunities to be paid by a university to conduct research. When you get a degree in the Great Books, you are even further limiting your opportunities. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get paid for something you enjoy doing. Getting a job at a university or research organization makes it easier for people to pursue their intellectual interests. I like reading the classics, but I do it for free. I also research distance education opportunities as a hobby. If someone has over $20k to spend on a hobby, then they are in a better position financially than most people.

If someone spends $20k on an RA doctorate and makes about $10k a year doing adjunct work, then the degree will pay for itself in 2 years. I, however, am in a traditional program and hoping to pursue full-time positions.

 

If I had said that an NA doctorate is useful for college teaching, it would be beyond straining. What I clearly said is that most people pursuing DETC Masters and Doctorate are not interested in teaching. While the OP may have asked about teaching in other threads, they clearly were interested in the Harrison-Middleton degree because of the unique material and approach, as the OP stated.

 

Originally it is, and that is certainly the usual emphasis, however not all DA degrees would not be for teaching, two example are Franklin Pierce University offered a DA in Leadership, Eastern University offers a DA in Marriage and Family. Many people pursue degrees and do not use them for the original purpose. For example a JD is required to be a lawyer, yet now some executives are pursuing JD for the knowledge to use in their present positions and have no interest in practicing law. Law schools are now designing "Executive JD".