US intelligence: Russia plans to attack Ukraine early next year

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Lerner, Dec 4, 2021.

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  1. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    Do you intend to write as if you are the thought police? Really. 'Information hygiene?'
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Ummm, you do realize that Putin is the one actually brutalizing, jailing, poisoning and killing dissidents and whomever he finds inconvenient? In addition to victims of his aggressions in Russia and abroad (not even limited to Ukraine)?

    Ironically, this is the way of thinking cultivated by Russian propaganda, and in the past it spread through left and left-leaning intelligentsia under "liberation" and "fighting for peace" guises. It's weird to see this mush spreading through the right-wing channels now.
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sputnik News is a freaking enemy propaganda outlet, working for Kremlin openly out to harm "the West". Including and especially your country. It is not OK to check the local weather forecast from them, even if they source it from NOAA like everyone else.
    - your Captain Obvious.
     
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  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe part of that is - your heritage is Ukrainian - not Russian. Would you give a couple of rats' asses if it were Ivan Franko and Taras Shevchenko, instead of Pushkin and Dostoevski? Just asking - there are no wrong answers, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  5. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    Only thinking as an American. Shevchenko and Franko did not make it into my Great Books set. Dostoyevsky did.

    Malcolm Gladwell, my favorite modern author, calls one of his enterprises Pushkin Press. Fascinating reasons behind thid that. Also George Washington University, not far from the Foggy Bottom Metro Stop, has a wonderful statue of Pushkin. Handsome man. Culture matters.
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I was asking Stanislav. That was clear from my quote. I'm sure they made it into his collection - or at least, his schooling. They're Ukrainian poets. I was introduced to their works in Ukrainian class when I was in my 40s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
  7. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    Alright, neither is in my Great Books set, nor is there a statue of either in Washington DC.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Right now, unfortunately, all of those long-dead people have been forcibly enlisted to fight in this war. Dostoevsky and Pushkin are on the wrong side. No real fault of theirs, of course, but no less real.

    Maybe when all this is over... you know what, nah. I think I am cured of the compulsion to care about Tolstoyevsky, Pushmontov, or whoever. Let people of Russian heritage revere them all they want.

    Taras Shevchenko:

    When I am dead, bury me
    In my beloved Ukraine,
    My tomb upon a grave mound high
    Amid the spreading plain,
    So that the fields, the boundless steppes,
    The Dnieper's plunging shore
    My eyes could see, my ears could hear
    The mighty river roar.

    When from Ukraine the Dnieper bears
    Into the deep blue sea
    The blood of foes ... then will I leave
    These hills and fertile fields —
    I'll leave them all and fly away
    To the abode of God,
    And then I'll pray .... But till that day
    I nothing know of God.

    Oh bury me, then rise ye up
    And break your heavy chains
    And water with the tyrants' blood
    The freedom you have gained.
    And in the great new family,
    The family of the free,
    With softly spoken, kindly word
    Remember also me.
     
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  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's the one! Great poem, great answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sure, they enjoy a lot of hype. But neither Sputnik nor you use any of their works to bolster your argument, now do you? (Dostoyevsky might have been useful for them; I believe he was somewhat of an Imperial chauvinist. And a genius, of course). No, you use their names to give cover for a cause that, right now, terrorizes and kills civilians. Good fraction of whom were raised on Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy and speak Russian. You'd know that if you knew anything about Kharkiv and Mariupol.
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Editorial commentary being based on BS lies is okay with you. Got it!
     
  13. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    Are you really that intolerant?

    "It's an universal law-- intolerance is the first sign of an inadequate education. An ill-educated person behaves with arrogant impatience, whereas truly profound education breeds humility."

    Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's funny how "so what you're really saying is" is never followed by what the person is really saying.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's not "intolerance" to dismiss sources that have proven themselves to be propaganda (no matter whose). It would be silly to say that no one should read Tolstoy just because Putin is an authoritarian warmonger, just as it would be silly to say that no one should read Mark Twain if the U.S. attacked Mexico without provocation.

    But that's not at all the same thing as choosing not to do business or otherwise support those who live under an aggressive, authoritarian regime when the effect would be to strengthen that regime.
     
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  16. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    We will have to disagree on the meaning of words. Again, no matter the righteousness of the decision Makers, attempting to police the thoughts of others is a nonstarter with me. I laugh out loud at anyone who imagines they can proscribe what I chose to read.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    You're free to read as much Kremlin-penned propaganda as you like. But that doesn't mean you're entitled to have other people take it seriously.
     
  18. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    A sincere thank you. I pray you also enjoy the freedom to explore your own thoughts.
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I like that you are willing to address overpolicing. True, it's only if it affect yourself, but it's a start.

    Here's a hypothetical: one may decide to wipe his ass, in public, with an American flag. That would be his 1st Amendment right. But when someone on an obscure discussion board asks that person to stop doing that - it is not oppression, not unethical, is itself a protected expression, and something that has to be said. Watching/reading and then forwarding content from Sputnik+, RT, and the rest of the gang helps them hurt America and monetize their little serial killer blogs. Legal? Yes. Moral? ...
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'll guess that you're the only person here that takes seriously the nonsense spread by Sputnik News. They are just plain untrustworthy.
     

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