UofP Dilemma

So would you say that the Big 3 have a better reputation than UoP or just less well known? This is one of the options that I have been considering, but I am concerned that I would have the same problem of a degree from a school that is looked upon poorly.

 

I would prefer a BS from a less known school then a well know, yet poor reputation, school. Hence - COSC over UoP for my BS.

 

Unless you attend an Ivy League school or one of the world-renowned institutions of post-secondary education and research, any college or university will be of a lesser reputation. If employers only wanted Ivy League graduates on their payroll there would be close to 95% unemployment among college / university graduates. The fact is people generally do not care where you earned your degree as long as the institution is accredited (USA) or government approved at the post-secondary level (most of the rest of the world). There are many graduates of UoP working in throughout North America. Get those final 5 courses done and move on with your career and life.

 

The Big 3 schools are primarily just lesser known. That can be a big advantage though. UoP is, for better or worse, very well known. As a previous poster mentioned, some HR people automatically trash resumes when they see UoP. Of course, not all HR people do this, but some definitely do. Why take the risk? You can still transfer to one of the Big 3 schools or even a generic state school like Peru State College, or Chadron State College. Some other good options might be Fort Hays State University (very affordable) or even Troy University. There are simply too many good options available to limit yourself.

 

I believe you're correct in stating that it attracts lazy people. Perhaps this situation exists because UoP accepts anyone and everyone. I was amazed when I originally applied to their MAED program that I didn't have to send any test scores or even write an essay. They just accepted me, and that was before they even had my undergrad transcript.

I had considered UoP for teacher licensure because a friend of mine recommended it. She was about halfway through the program, and said she liked it. Being in rural Virginia where the nearest university is 2 hours away, I signed up for UoP, but quit after 4 classes because I thought the courses were an absolute joke. I hated working in Learning Teams because my teammates were always idiots. (I believe these were the lazy people Bruce referenced.) Quitting was the best thing I did, because I am so proud to have completed my MS through Walden instead.

My experience has only been with education courses, so perhaps other programs are different. My wife just started teaching for UoP and her students are pissed because she's grading them so strictly when it comes to content, grammar, and APA. The students complained that no other instructor had been that picky. Mind you, my wife is teaching the last course in the sequence before student teaching. I took a school finance course with UoP this summer so that I could transfer it as an elective to my EdS program with the University of South Dakota. I earned a 100 on every assignment, even though I know it wasn't my best work. I didn't really get anything out of the course, and I plan to retake it with another school when I move on to my PhD.

I have a colleague who just finished his MAED in Educational Administration through UoP. He drove to their Richmond Center to do it. I have to wonder why he, a guy who has 4 kids and is the sole provider for his family, would choose to go to UoP where courses are $1500, when he could have gone to the UVA Richmond Center where courses are $650. I believe it all has to do with the "we accept everyone" attitude. While I know that attitude can be beneficial to some, I able believe my colleague is running into HR people who toss out his resume with UoP on it. He still hasn't been offered an admin position.

I'm just glad there ARE people with UoP, like Bruce, who are actually trying to be proactive in promoting their programs and challenging their students. Were I in his field, I would totally take a course. I just can't say anything positive about their education department. :-( My wife wishes she taught the first course in the sequence so she could shape up those students so they wouldn't be such whiners and would actually value what they're learning rather than the grades they get.

-Matt

 

I have yet to teach a course for UoP or any other school where I haven't heard the same complaints. My standard response; "I'm not your other instructor".

I'm not promoting their programs, just pointing out that they're not the joke some people like to make them out to be. My sister-in-law is a double Harvard grad (AB & MBA) and told me she had more than one undergrad course where you earned an "A" if you merely showed up and stayed awake. Amazingly, we don't see websites like harvardsucks.com.

 

Value of UoP Degree declines rapidly

University of Phoenix
Like other recent events in the US, it has become harder and harder for University of Phoenix to hold back controversy. In the fall of 2006, the pressure of bottled up truths broke through the dam and came flooding into the limelight.

The first week of September 2006, the Associated Press broke news the the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals joined by the US Department of Justice reopened a case against the university, alleging it defrauded the government of millions of dollars. This suit was initiated by employees of the university. The renewal is hardly a surprise as numerous current and former employees, especially those employed by University of Phoenix's (UoP) Online section, have regularly complained within the company, on the news and all over the Internet about University of Phoenix's unscrupulous practices.

Complaints mounted as the Online section, headed by Brian Mueller, grew rapidly. In 2006, Brian Mueller was promoted to CEO of Apollo Group, UoP's parent company. In 2005, total enrollment in the Online programs surpassed UoP's total US ground campus enrollment, thus creating a large concentration of employees grouped in one location near Phoenix's International Airport. Employee turnover rates at the Online campus have been reported at 60% or greater. It is hard to throw a stone in a grocery store without hitting at least one current and/or former employee of the company.

Not surprisingly, this high turnover rate leads to discussion among current and former employees. One universal theme amongst employees - discrimination. UoP has lawsuits pending for sexual discrimination, race discrimination, retaliation and, figuring ever more prominently, religious discrimination. The last week of September, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in Phoenix finally took a stand and filed against the university for discrimination against non-Mormon enrollment counselors. While walking through a local grocery store, I was unsettled to hear a couple of Mormons discussing the UoP "ward." This means that the church has a group dedicated to converting people who work for UoP. It is likely that more lawsuits will come from other employee groups such as academic and financial counselors who have also complained of discrimination by the university.

This follows a previous high-profile lawsuit which UoP was forced to settle for failing to compensate enrollment counselors for overtime work. A lawsuit is now in the works against UoP on behalf of academic counselors for violating federal overtime laws. UoP has become notorious for pressuring counselors to work beyond their 8-hour shift and to work from home using their personal email accounts and phone lines.

Complaints regarding the companies hostile work environment are littered across the Internet. Employees, faculty and students agree that, whatever the environment, the University of Phoenix has bred contempt for its service and product across a broad spectrum of the consumer landscape. Websites such as UoPSucks.com, RateItAll.com, RipOffReport.com, StudentsReview.com, etc. contain numerous stories filled with mirror details. Whether the story is written by a student, an employee or a faculty member, the events unfold the same. It's no wonder that, by the first week of November, a securities lawsuit was filed against the for-profit university. In January 2008, the fraud lawsuit was won for approximately $280 million. It is currently the largest fine that the university has paid to date. However, with their track record it will not be the last.

In November 2006, the Arizona Republic reported that Intel removed the university from its list of approved schools for tuition reimbursement. After this latest controversy, it is not surprising that Intel has chosen to terminate their long-stand partnership with UoP. It is also not a shock that several other Fortune 500 companies have followed suit. The companies site the lack of AACSB accreditation for the school's business program as the cause. The ultimate example of how poorly received UoP degrees are by the corporate world, a Parker & Lynch add specifically states that "Applicants from University of Phoenix or DeVry need not apply."

http://www.parkerlynch.com/jobs/JobDisplay.asp?JobId=406374&JobsPerPage=100&StartWithJob=0&SortBy=0&SortMethod=1

Websites opposing University of Phoenix have long contained postings from students who find themselves unable to obtain employment or complain of being passed over for promotions after obtaining a degree from UoP. These websites also contain postings by employers and hiring personnel who admit that they automatically throw out resumes that contain University of Phoenix credentials. Interestingly, www.Payscale.com shows that UoP graduates make significantly less than graduates from other institutions.

This follows StudentsReview.com's findings. The website surveys visitors and 2006 statistics showed that 25% of UoP graduates are unemployed and 50% believe UoP contributed 0-25% to their success. The greatest criticisms come from the most recent graduates and those who attended the Online program. The online program was guided by Brian Mueller, who is often accused of training enrollment counselors to use unscrupulous sales tactics, even bullying, to increase enrollment numbers. In fall of 2007, a group of consumers banded together to form a MySpace group http://groups.myspace.com/ApolloSux. With 100 members and counting, the group has solicited legal representation to go after UoP for fraud. Accounts of individuals are listed in bulletins and forum topics.

Meanwhile, more information is surfacing about the credentials of "facilitators" at UoP campuses. UoP instructors (aka "facilitators") are only required to have a Masters in order to teach graduate level courses in their field. UoPexperience has uncovered Joseph Kleinplatz, MD as faculty at a UoP Jersey City campus (as of 5-14-07). A quick Internet search on the name revealed that this facilitator has been charged with fraudulently obtaining a medical license, fraudulent practice of medicine, false report, moral unfitness / incompetence, violation of public health law and failing to make records available. He was found by the board to be a menace to New York and his license was revoked. In addition, a criminal justice and ethics professor turned out to be an ex-con. Court records show James Brey was originally charged with six counts of grand theft, 22 counts of forgery and 22 counts of presenting fraudulent receipts. He was ultimately convicted on four felony counts and ordered to repay $34,000. http://uopsucks.com/teachers.html

UoP's reputation has also come into question after paperwork surfaced showing that a student who ONLY had a GED was allowed to enroll in and complete a Masters degree program. Apparently the student graduated with the master's degree and applied for a job. When the student showed the employer the master's degree, but did not have an undergrad degree to show, the student contacted the University. The University quickly moved to cover up this error and reportedly offered the undergrad program to the student for free. UOPSucks.com was told that this student received federal financial aid. Federal financial aid guidelines strictly prohibit the use of financial aid monies when students are not qualified for the program. Furthermore, the student would have received much higher levels of financial aid due to the graduate level coursework and would have been denied aid for bachelor's work based on the presumption that an undergraduate program had already been completed.

If you want a quality education that will hold up, look for options outside of University of Phoenix. In this case, you pay Rolls Royce fees for a Pinto. Despite the convenience, University of Phoenix is just not worth the risk.

Source: epinions.com

 

Which is, of course, an opinion site.

 

I can tell you with confidence that University of Phoenix has many issues as many people have indicated out there and the simple reason I know this, because I was a student there (it did not took me to finish more courses to know). My experience was terrible and I left after 3 classes, the only thing good that came out of attending University of Phony is that I have been able to transfer 9 credits in almost every program I have attended in the last 20 years and save some money while at it. I really admire UOP because they really represent the model what is for profit means. Now, they are accredited and if they allow me to take the degree for "free" I will certainly finish a MBA there as well. This is my opinion.

 

I took 3 business management related classes at UoP as well. They were, as you say, rigorous in terms of workload (those people love essays for sure). However, I noticed more than one person in my class that just simply should not have been there in the first place, let alone be given a passing grade. I found the grading to be extremely lenient, and after watching a few illiterate people progress through the course series with me I was left with a very uncomfortable feeling. I ultimately changed schools because the bar for quality just seemed awefully low. That said, it is not hard for me to see why they might get such a bad rep.

Danny

B.S., Individualized Studies (Project Management), Charter Oak State College
A.A.S, Computer Aided Design, Southern Arkansas University Tech

 

EDIT: Oops! Double posted. =(

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't at least one of your degrees from California Coast, which was by the founder's own admission a degree mill in it's early years?

You know.....glass houses, stones, etc.

 

You are incorrect, is from California Pacific University. The only thing bad about the degree, that is unaccredited and yes and I had mention it before, that I am aware of the limited utility or the lack of it (as the rest of my degrees)! But it was a much better foundation than University of Phoenix and I can compare because I can

 

So an unaccredited degree is better than a regionally accredited one...and you're giving out advice?

Hmmm....

From your own field, you should know better. Most states would readily accept UOPhx credits for the CPA exam. Would any accept CPU?

 

Nope I am not given any advice, I am just making an observation and yes I do know better and I don't need the CPU degree for the CPA, that it is why I have the RA degrees for that and other purposes (I keep my options open). What you have indicated is not the issue at hand: unaccredited vs accredited

 

A testimonial from the CPU website:I consulted by email with Dr. John Bear about DBA Programs. He recommended yours. - R.S.M. Oak Harbor WA

 

Actually, it speaks to the very heart of the issue. You've criticized a regionally accredited school while espousing that someone keep their options open.

Which do you think helps with options more, a regionally accredited school or one that isn't?

I'm with Bruce here. Some people don't like UOPhx and their aggressive marketing campaign doesn't help with that. Makes sense to me.

But let's be fair and responsible when we discuss things. If UOPhx isn't going to meet the needs of some because of how it is perceived, neither is a school that is not accredited

 

Not the issue here, stuff is so old and I really don't care or I have the need to defend it! The reason I am able to make an observation is because I have tried those products(or degree programs), as you see I am player in all the arenas and all levels!

 

So what is your connection with University of Phoenix?(Ex) Student or part-time adjunct faculty or other position maybe? I am curious!

 

Never mind I got my answer!