University of Atlanta's new accreditor

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Steve King, Jan 19, 2014.

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  1. Steve King

    Steve King Member

    I noticed in the latest issue of the DETC newsletter that the University of Atlanta (UofA) resigned their DETC accreditation. According to their website, UofA now claims accreditation through the Accreditation Service for International Colleges (ASIC) in the UK.

    The description on the UofA webpage makes it appear as though ASIC is a CHEA approved accreditor, but I've never heard of ASIC and the name "service for international colleges" sounds more like a transcript service or an accreditation mill than a genuine accrediting body.

    Is anyone familiar with ASIC or have any insight into why UofA dropped a good, recognized National Accreditor for ASIC?
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Searching is your friend -- ASIC has been discussed here at length, and recently so.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Have you ever heard of a situation where an employee was given the opportunity to resign rather than be fired?
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    ASIC - a CHEA-approved accreditor? :lol: Yes, U of A makes it sound like it, doesn't it? ASIC is on a CHEA committee and is listed by CHEA under "foreign accreditors." That's it. It's not RA, not NA - not anything, as far as US accreditation goes.

    ASIC itself says its accreditation does not convey any degree-granting permission. And - at least as I see it - it doesn't lend any standing to degrees conferred by an institution. ASIC originally vetted British schools enrolling foreign students for the UK Border Agency, to make sure classes were "real" and there were no immigration-related scams going on. Most were non-degree-granting schools. It has since morphed into an international "accreditor" but its "accreditation" lends no value to a degree in North America - or anywhere else I know of.

    There - that's about the hundredth time I've said this. No more. BTW - superb comment, Dr. Douglas.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2014
  5. Steve King

    Steve King Member

    Thank you for that succinct and unequivocal reply, Johann! (And, my apologies to Steve Foerster for not finding the earlier discussions.)

    It seems beyond disingenuous of the University of Atlanta (UofA) to claim their degrees are "accredited" by ASIC if ASIC states that its accreditation doesn't convey any degree-granting permission...to say nothing of UofA's implication that ASIC is somehow CHEA approved. I wonder if ASIC has grounds for, or any interest in, legal action against UofA for misrepresentation.
     
  6. Mohammed

    Mohammed New Member

    Disingenuous indeed! This is what the UofA says on its web page:

    "The University of Atlanta is an accredited member of CHEA. As an accredited degree-granting member of the ASIC, U of A is also an institutional member of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). CHEA is a non-profit organization serving the national advocate for self-regulation through accreditation."
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

    Barrington lives.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Hm. That IS disconcerting. I just ran a CHEA search for U of A and came up empty, as I should have. The catalog description seems awfully 'artful' to me for a legitimate institution.
     
  9. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    I suspect they took their web copy from when they had been DETC-accredited and simply wrote in "ASIC" in place of "DETC."

    Big mistake, assuming ASIC accreditation doesn't convey any membership status with CHEA, and it seems it doesn't.
     
  10. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Yes. I can think of two off the top. It happened to me a number of years ago. It's a long story.

    Another instance is when there was a shakeup at EA Sports in 2010 over the ever declining popularity of Madden Football. All the Senior leadership on the design team (several of whom I know personally) were told that they would be fired before the beginning of the next dev cycle. The team came together and chose to resign collectively rather than be fired, and a number of them went off to start their own company.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    U. of Atlanta is one of three problem-plagued schools owned by Rarefied LLC. I believe Akber Mithani is/was a principal of that co. and his two sons, Nick and Alex, run the schools. Rarefied LLC bought the former (mill) Barrington University and re-branded it into U. of Atlanta, subsequently attaining DETC accreditation - which it no longer has. It operated first from Mobile Alabama, then moved to Atlanta. I think that was around 2008, roughly around the time it received accreditation.

    Rarefied LLC owns two other schools - Iverson Business School and Royal Beauty Careers. The latter school received big "stimulus" bucks
    and also had a problem rate of loan default among its students - 40% in the first three years - double the normal rate. Article here:

    For-profit colleges reap big benefit from stimulus | www.ajc.com

    Iverson Business School was sued by a group of its students. Basically, they claimed the school had exaggerated job prospects after graduation. I don't know how it turned out.

    Students Sue Business School

    Here's a picture of the premises. Iverson and U. of Atlanta both operate at 6685 Peachtree, per their web pages.

    File:UniversityOfAtlanta.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2014
  12. DailyNews

    DailyNews New Member

    I don't understand why everyone here refuses to acknowledge ASIC as a foreign-Recognized accrediting body. The USDOE acknowleges that CHEA/UK ACCREDITS foreign degrees. Yes I know that the USDOE loses money because it is not a US--recognized accrediting body...but if an institution is ASIC accedited...spelled ACCREDITED....then that means the US recognizes that accreditaion...period. Why is there even a discussion about this. Just visit the CHEA/UK site from the US CHEA site and it explains this. No...it is not RA or NA accredition. But it is accredited by a foreign agency recognized to do so...which means it is just as good...probably better IMHO!!
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I think it's clear that ASIC is real and that it has a real accreditation process. The real question is what good it is in a practical sense. If a graduate of an institution accredited by ASIC can't continue for further study or if employers don't recognize their degree, then that's a real problem. We do know that ASIC accreditation is meaningful when it comes to graduates being able to emigrate to the UK, but that's all.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I do - because ASIC accreditation (by ASIC's own admission) has nothing to do with degree-granting authorization and, AFAIK does not impart any standing to an institution's degrees - anywhere. And that's OK, because ASIC accreditation doesn't seem to be designed for that particular purpose.

    CHEA-recognized US accreditation (RA or NA) does make a US school's degrees recognized - for purposes of further study or employment. I wish people would stop pretending that ASIC accreditation can do this, because it cannot. I know of no country (and certainly not UK) where educational authorities will accept an institution's degrees due to its ASIC accreditation. A university must meet the standards of the educational authorities in its own country, for that to happen.

    IYHO perhaps -- definitely not IMHO. Not in this case, anyway. :sad:

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2014
  15. florianhimmel

    florianhimmel New Member

    @Johann , do you have any links where we can find explanations between ASIC accreditation and degree-granting authorization?

    Thank you
    Florian
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    For starters, I can give you the link to ASIC's own page, where ASIC says (accurately) their own accreditation does not confer or validate degree-granting authority.

    College Directory - ASIC

    A quote: "However, it should be noted that ASIC neither confers nor validates degree-awarding powers. Applicants for distance education programmes should always satisfy themselves that the level of recognition of a relevant award is sufficient to meet their needs."

    True. And good advice, too. Each country has its own "accreditation" or equivalent process that says which of its institutions can legitimately award recognized degrees. ASIC doesn't do this. It's not its purpose - and I believe that (unfortunately) some ASIC members would like people to think that it is.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
  17. calvinburgos

    calvinburgos New Member


    I don't agree with you about Iverson and U. Of Atlanta beeing operate at the same address. I just checked Google Street views and as you can see on the following screenshot, the building is actually available for lease by Alta properties :

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    (1) This was discussed a while ago on another forum. Someone had phoned U. of Atlanta and were told that the U. of A address was somewhere else on Peachtree, not the Iverson building. We smelled something and it was checked. Both websites gave the 6685 Peachtree address.

    (2) This building is the latest address given to DETC during the time University of Atlanta was accredited - and on file when its accreditation lapsed. http://www.detc.org/UploadedDocuments/Public-Notices/Accreditation-Actions/061413_AC_meeting_report.pdf

    (3) The Wiki on U. of A. shows a picture of the Iverson Building and mentions it. University of Atlanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Are DETC, Wiki and my eyes all wrong? So there's space to be leased -- I don't doubt some room may open up. Maybe Iverson and/or U of A. will move or cease business - one never knows. So, if either school is not at 6685 Peachtree now, it was earlier. Out of curiosity, just where is it, exactly, if not at 6685 Peachtree? You appear to have done only half your homework - at best.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My apologies! It was there, now moved

    Sorry for the rant - it WAS there, for years - it's moved now. New address:

    University of Atlanta
    6455 East Johns Crossing, suite 175
    Johns Creek, GA 30097
    USA

    Looks like I was the one who only did half his homework. Again, sorry! :oops:

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  20. rodmc

    rodmc Member


    I am not aware of any accrediting organization that grants the power to issue a degree or credential for any college in the US. The actual authority to grant a college credential, diploma or degree is a State Dept. function; and not one bestowed by an accrediting agency. Let me explain.

    I respectfully submit this: all legitimate and recognized accrediting agencies [first] requires a post-secondary institution to be operating “legally” within their jurisdiction, before they can be considered for accreditation. In other words, a college must have the power from the State to grant degrees, before they can be considered for accreditation. Kind of makes sense, don’t you think? A school must be able to legally grant a degree, before it can be considered to be a legitimate school by the accrediting agencies for consideration.

    In the US for example, to be considered eligible for accreditation, a college must have been approved by the State agency responsible for licensing and approving institutions of higher learning. I believe this is the case for all States except Hawaii. The State of Hawaii does have regulation, but they do not issue a certificate of license and authorization for a college to grant degrees. In this case, private colleges really do not have the legal authority to grant degrees. A private college in Hawaii with USDOE recognized accreditation lives on its merits of having recognized accreditation.
    See: http://files.hawaii.gov/auditor/Reports/2014/14-03.pdf

    Concerning ASIC accreditation, I would note: Accreditation | Horizons University

    This Horizons University holds ASIC accreditation but also holds: Accreditation Council for Business School Programs (Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs)
    Accredited Programs - Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs
    For a US college to qualify for ACBSP accreditation, they first must first be Regionally accredited or equivalent in their country. NA will not suffice. See: Join ACBSP - Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs

    Also see: Home which has the same accreditations and there are others .

    I believe that ACBSP is recognized both by CHEA and USDOE. http://www.chea.org/pdf/CHEA_USDE_AllAccred.pdf
    ACBSP has obviously considered ASIC to be the equivalent to Regional accreditation, unless I am missing something? I would like to know if I am incorrect on this.

    What from I can tell and I have researched this matter greatly, in order for a college to be operating legally, it must have a license issued by their respective State. That certificate of license is what generates the power and authority to grant a college degree. The power to issue a degree does not come from the accrediting agency. If you can show me anywhere that contradicts this statement, I will gladly eat my crow cooks medium-rare.

    ASIC seems to be a very progressive and growing accrediting agency. The UK Government is supporting ASIC in its efforts to promote itself as a global international accrediting agency in Thailand. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/university-accreditation-in-thailand

    I welcome your feedback, but I think we will see good things from ASIC for International colleges in the future.
     

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