University of Atlanta's new accreditor

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Steve King, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The case of Horizons Universuty is different.
    French Ministry of Education (number 0451674A)
    • Paris Regional Professional Training Control Department (number 11752996775)

    Usually recognition by Ministry of Education be it in another country or islands is sufficient for ACBSP.

    I'm not familiar with ASIC so I can't comment much.
    From what I read on internet, they work with UK Border Patrol to prevent fake, false and bogus Student Visas to defraud international students going to study in UK and applying for Student Visa.

    Academic value of their accreditation is unknown to me.
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    rodmc: The power to issue a degree does not come from the accrediting agency. If you can show me anywhere that contradicts this statement, I will gladly eat my crow cooks medium-rare.

    John: You are correct . . . but accrediting agencies can specify which level of degrees are accredited. They can say, for instance, that Bachelor's are accredited but higher degrees are not. For years, DEAC (the former DETC) was required to accredit entire schools only . . . but even though they were limited to schools through Master's level, they nonetheless accredited some with PhD programs (e.g. Leicester University), making clear that the doctorates were not to be considered accredited. When I asked the then-Executive Director of DETC how that could happen, his reply, in total, was "Let's not go there, John."
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, mostly. But there is a set of exceptions in that in a number of U.S. states, schools that exclusively offer religious degree programs can be exempt from the requirement of licensure. Thus, they are operating and awarding degrees legally, yet have no state license to do so.
  4. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Interesting thought. YUIN University in California is legitimate as far as I know, but doesn't hold either national or regional accreditation. It is, however, also accredited by ASIC, and has a School of Business Administration. So, here's a question for you: if YUIN were to apply for ACBSP accreditation, do you think ACBSP would come to the same conclusion? That ASIC accreditation would mean that YUIN University is in possession of the equivalence of a type of accreditation it doesn't have in the US.
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    No. ACBSP explicitly requires US-based candidate institutions to hold regional accreditation, so YUIN is automatically ineligible.

    In fact, it looks like ACBSP requires regional accreditation for US schools applying only for membership (as opposed to accreditation):

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2015
  6. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    Thanks for the feedback. I am starting to understand that the Accreditation Service for International Schools, Colleges and Universities – ASIC, is gaining a lot of credibility and recognition around the world.

    I found this:

    Fairleigh Dickinson University, a Regionally accredited university (Middle States Commission on Higher Education) has a division located in the UK. They have chosen to have ASIC as their accreditor in the UK for their UK subsidiary, Wroxton College.

    See: Accreditation - Fairleigh Dickinson University (FDU)

    Why would a Regionally accredited university choose to have ASIC as their UK accrediting agency, if ASIC was not legitimate? That does not make sense to me. Surely, Fairleigh Dickinson University would have done a comprehensive review before selecting an accreditor. Why would Fairleigh Dickinson University choose ASIC over Middle States Commission on Higher Education, unless ASIC held greater recognition in the UK? Any thoughts?

    Finally, why would CHEA list ASIC in their International Directory as a recognized International accreditor?

    International Directory Search (Search UK)

    I understand that CHEA does not endorse their International Directory, but they cannot possibly do so. Why? CHEA is intended to have oversight for USDOE recognition only. Read their bylaws and understand why they exist. When searching their International list of accrediting agencies, CHEA clearly list Accreditation Service for International Schools, Colleges and Universities – ASIC as a legitimate UK accreditor. If ASIC was bogus, why in the world would CHEA, a highly respected accreditor for US accrediting agencies list ASIC? Where is the benefit for CHEA? Is CHEA and their rest of the academic world fooled?

    Personally, I think not. I think ASIC is the real deal. I’d love to hear feedback from the community. It seems that ASIC carries some credibility to the International community, which is whom they serve.

    Look forward to some insight.
  7. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    SteveFoerster you correct. Religious institutions are not always required to have a State license to operate, but they do receive an "exemption" from the State to issue religious based degrees only. Religious based schools cannot issue a degree in computer science, business, etc. These institutions still are required to have permission to grant the religious degree. Also, the reason is due to the separation of church and State as it applies to religious based degrees only. Outside of that issue, all colleges and universities are granted degree issuing authority from the State; and from no other agency.
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member


    ASIC is recognized accrediting service in UK.

    Why not let the professionals in the field of credential evaluation such as members of NACES or a service of AARCO provide an evaluation of degree awarded by ASIC accredited college or university?

    How would NARIC UK evaluate University of Atlanta degree?

    Wroxton College is an overseas campus of Fairleigh Dickinson University.

    Does it mean that Wroxton College awards Fairleigh Dickinson University degrees?
    I assume it states both names on the diploma.

    So is it British or US degree?
  9. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    Good points Lerner.

    So I question this. Would an ASIC accredited bachelor degree from Wroxton College be accepted in the US for employment? Would an ASIC accredited bachelor degree from Wroxton College be accepted at a US regionally or nationally accredited graduate university? Surely, regionally accredited Fairleigh Dickinson University will accept an ASIC undergraduate degree from Wroxton College, so what is their basis for not accepting any other ASIC accredited bachelor degree?

    I wonder if a degree in political science or history from Wroxton College would be accepted at a US law school, assuming of course the student does well on the LSAT.

    Is it reasonable to suggest that if a student earns a degree from ASIC accredited Wroxton College, they would be accepted in the US, but if the very same student earns a degree from a US based ASIC accredited university, they are not accepted in the US? Kind of defeats the credibility of distance education in my humble opinion.

    This would be equivalent to suggesting that a UK based graduate from Capella University has a valid degree in the US, but not in the UK. We know this is not the case.

    Outside of Iran or North Korea, I think we can safely assume that either accreditation is recognized or it is not. There is no delineation, or what good is accreditation in the west?

    I don’t think anyone can say that ASIC isn’t a valid accreditor. I tend to feel they are a very legitimate accreditor and would be well accepted by employers and probably US graduate schools, too. I have first-hand knowledge that ASIC is accrediting several US colleges and universities this year that cater to international students. I have heard that Distance Education Accrediting Commission (DEAC) f/k/a DETC is not very well accepted overseas, particularly in Asia and the Middle East.

    I like Lerner’s suggestion of having NACES or a service of AARCO provide an evaluation of degree awarded by ASIC accredited colleges to get a baseline review.

    I hear people saying ASIC is not a real accreditor, but the more I investigate, I find they are very legitimate.

    I’d love to hear from others on this matter.
  10. major56

    major56 Active Member

    As one of the two international Fairleigh Dickinson University campuses (Wroxton-UK and FDU-Vancouver, BC) — completing several internet searches; it would seem that Wroxton College of FDU degrees are conferred by FDU. I have placed a phone call to FDU for a definitive answer. Will post FDU’s response…
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Now ask the same questions in case of University of Atlanta.

    Wroxton College is not a good example if their degree is RA, then the ASIC accreditation becomes more relevant to consumer protection, i.e. Student Visas abd tuition is paid by international students who enroll Wroxton College for sophomore junior, senior year.

    Notice that the requirement by Wroxton College is to have Regionally Accredited freshman year credit for admissions.

    Would Wroxton College accept University of Atlanta credits?

    In my view ASIC is a real accreditor , I'm trying to understand the Academic value of their accreditation and equivalency of it.

    Again, I'm far from being an expert so what I say is my thoughts and i can be wrong.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2015
  12. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    The ASIC standards do seem to include quality in academics; teaching, learning and research:

    International University Accreditation | ASIC

    Our accreditation process consists of a set of key performance indicators split into 8 main areas, namely;

    A – Premises, and Health and Safety
    B – Governance, Management and Staff Resources
    C – Learning, Teaching and Research Activity
    D – Quality Assurance and Enhancement
    E – Student Welfare
    F – Awards and Qualifications
    G – Marketing and Recruitment of Students
    H – Systems Management and Compliance with Immigration Regulations
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    That's a good thing.

    Again I'm sure they are valid accreditor.
    As to the acceptance and academic recognition I prefer to ask professionals in this field.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So do I. In fact, I would be very interested in the result of such an evaluation.

    As I recall, however, you lead a new institution in Minnesota where for continuing licensure you are required to have institutional accreditation within five years, so I would think the most relevant opinion to you would be whether the Minnesota Department of Education would agree that ASIC accreditation is equivalent to accreditation by a CHEA-approved agency. Would they?
  15. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Wroxton College appears to be simply a branch campus of FDU, which provides FDU students with the opportunity to spend a semester studying in England, rather than in New Jersey. It doesn't appear to grant degrees, just college credit for coursework, which are probably FDU credits. The operation seems similar to other "study abroad" programs sponsored by RA schools.

    Students from other RA schools can also attend, as long as they get approval from their home institutions. Presumably such approval is required in order to ensure that the FDU credits will transfer.

    Wroxton is specifically identified as a "branch campus" of FDU by Middle States Commission, which is FDU's regional accreditor. So any credits earned at Wroxton are RA. They probably aren't any different from FDU credits earned at the main campus in New Jersey.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2015
  16. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    Correct, our college is aggressively pursuing USDOE/CHEA recognized accreditation, which is required by the Minnesota Office of Higher Education - the State agency that grants our license to operate and issue college degrees. We have selected and notified a CHEA/USDOE agency at this time concerning our intention to pursue accreditation. We have the accreditation team leader in place and are working toward that end.

    We are in the 24-month holding pattern before we can submit the official application for accreditation. There is a 2-year waiting period from the date your last degree programs are approved, before an application can be submitted. This is imposed by the accrediting agency. In our case, the State approved our MBA, our last set of degree programs in the fall 2014. USDEO/CHEA application for accreditation will be submitted fall of 2016, to comply with State of Minnesota and the accrediting agency timeline.

    Of course, we cannot say what agency that is. Suggesting anything about accreditation until application/candidacy is achieved is forbidden by the accrediting agency. We are careful in our marketing to represent our accreditation properly. We are also working on articulation agreements at this time. As you all know, that process takes time. We also have a solid international student base, so having ASIC [in addition to] USDEO/CHEA recognized accreditation, would be an asset for our international students who are seeking jobs in their home countries.

    ASIC seems to be a good initial fit for that population of students. The waiting requirements for ASIC are different than USDEO/CHEA agencies. Just a bit shorter. We have already met the initial waiting period for ASIC.

    I have been in the education industry for over 15-years. I can tell you all that building quality programs and getting the required approvals in place, takes a lot of time and effort. There are no short cuts. This is why it is so hard to start a college today in America, without a great team in place and a great deal of financial resources.

    I cannot speak to the U of Atlanta of any other ASIC accredited schools, but they must have some good process in place to have gotten this far. Still not sure why U of Atlanta gave up DETC. A mystery I will never understand...
  17. rodmc

    rodmc Member

    Did Wroxton comment on why they chose to get ASIC accreditation? If they have regional accreditation, I am curious as to the benefit of ASIC for the college. Any insight?
  18. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The President of FDU made an announcement about the ASIC accreditation of Wroxton in 2009. According to his statement:

    Here is another 2009 FDU announcement that similarly points to the marketing value of ASIC accreditation:

    FDU actively promotes Wroxton as a "study abroad" experience to students enrolled at other US schools (in other words, it's not just for FDU students). This is a competitive market. FDU apparently feels that having a form of UK accreditation (in addition to traditional US regional accreditation) is a selling point that will "enhance recruitment efforts".
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2015
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    In the past international students arriving to UK with student visas got defrauded
    by colleges, institutes that physically operated in UK but their degrees were unrecognized, or at times they provided NVQ and other training.
    These schools may be small operations that closed doors etc.
    Also people abused the system, coming to Britain to work rather than study.

    Other cases are poor conditions, sanitary and safety issues at colleges that lure international and local students.

    So in order to prevent such abuse the UK Border Control in collaboration with authorities established some standards.

    Here is one article from the past.

    UK Border Agency criticised over student visas | Education | The Guardian

    Following widespread and increasing concern over the behaviour of some international independent and private colleges, the UK Government identified the need for a more rigorous system for accrediting education institutions involved in recruiting overseas students. Accordingly, a proposal for the mandatory accreditation of education providers, wishing to bring overseas students into the UK, was included in the Government's Command Paper "A Points Based System: Making Migration Work for Britain".

    In response to this proposal QISAN together with a number of professional practitioners with considerable experience in recruiting international students for universities, further education colleges and schools/EFL colleges and in establishing collaborative arrangements with overseas institutions and UK partners, have established an embryo accrediting body, namely ASIC.
  20. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    FDU apparently believes that accreditation of their UK campus (Wroxham College) by ASIC will distinguish them from the more questionable international schools that have operated in the UK.


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