Universidad central de nicaragua (again)

Ok, so I think you have made your point abundantly clear. But I don't believe you have an interest in enrolling at UCN, do you?

All of the extra, "marketing" affiliations, accreditations, and dispensations do not change the fact that at the core UCN holds a valid accreditation that both NARIC and NACES find equivalent. Why do they have all of that extra stuff? Who knows? How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop? The world may never know.

Do they have to have the most perfect, squeaky clean business model? - No. For that matter I challenge you to take a look at the unholy monster of intercollegiate athletics in the United States. The "small nation GDP" budgets the largest athletic programs control pollute the vision and mission of Higher Education just as much.

You can keep posting details regarding the things that bother you but for the time being the main institution is properly accredited and by many accounts serving the people of Nicaragua quite well.

 

One thing that is a potential bother is some nuance may be lost in translation, as no one of us seem to be native in Spanish. Example: some of the myriad of Azteca-UCN programs also involve third school, International University of Business and Law in Kherson, Ukraine. Since I am Ukrainian, I can evaluate this one. This private school (while unknown) IS actually accredited at the highest, fourth, level, and also have approved Scientific Councils to recommend the bestowal of doctorates (we have 2-level system, Kandidat and Doktor) in some specialities within Law and Business.
I read a rather nice-looking brochure of the dual (or triple) DBA program involving these three schools, and it lays down the above information at some length. So far so good. But then it shows the picture of tha diploma from IUBL, bearing what looks like an official seal. I have no real doubt it's genuine. Thing is, though, that mainstream research degrees in Ukraine are awarded by a government entity within Ministry of Education. There's talk of changing that, but even experimental PhDs from National University Kyiv Mohyla Academy (arguably the best or second-best school in the country, government-funded) are of really uncertain status. IUBL degrees are "Doctor of Business Administration" diplomas bearing IUBL name, not government-issued little blue plastic cards. So their standing in Ukraine itself is very dubious. But you would have hard time knowing any of this if you are not from that region.

 

It's not the number of problems that might bother me, it's the scope of them.

UCN is on very stable ground at home -- it's the 14th university in the country to work with the fledgling CNEA in an effort to tighten up Nicaraguan accreditation, and is itself fully accredited. It has a 16 year history of legitimate operations at home, runs 2 campuses and contributes numerous licensed professionals to Nicaraguan society and a few abroad.

If I thought UCN was doing anything that might jeopardise that standing, I would avoid it like the plague.

But the truth is that misguided accreditation, for whatever reason, can be ignored in the face of legitimate accreditation. I don't like it, but it doesn't make me worry about the school as a product -- it already passed that test at home years ago. It's also easy to fix: should UCN ever wise up to the situation, they can simply drop QAC and ASIC (of which QAC is undeniably the worst -- at least ASIC, though meaningless, has the shadow of legitimacy) accreditation and be done with it. They've only held QAC accreditation for a year -- hopefully, it won't be too much longer. But I probably won't lose sleep over it.

And their partnerships range from good, through middling, to poor schools. Again, I don't like this, but in the absence of actual knowledge that it's impacting UCN's academic standards at all, there's nothing actually wrong with it. If an accredited institution decides to offer degree courses through a secondary provider, or in tandem with another institution, then they're perfectly able to do so. No laws are being broken anywhere, and we have nothing but speculation to suggest academic standards are suffering.

It's obvious that they are pursuing further legitimacy and a larger operation. Hopefully these schools and accreditations will become a hinderance rather than a help in that regard, and they'll drop them. But honestly, I don't think UCN is in any danger of losing accreditation or compromising its standards. I just haven't seen anything that says they are. COULD we speculate that they are? Of course. Does that mean that they actually are? Of course not.

Ultimately, while we have to make our own minds up, we are not the experts -- we are interested amateurs. Our speculation in no way trumps the official perspective of services like NACES and NARIC, and it certainly doesn't trump the official accreditation scheme of Nicaragua.

So, while I dislike the questionable accreditation and a couple of less than wonderful schools with which UCN is associated, I don't think that those issues in any way invalidates UCN itself. If all their partnerships and accreditations were dodgy, sure, massive problem. But actually, the problematic stuff is the add on stuff, not the stuff that UCN's standing itself rests on.

If they found themselves in a situation where the CNEA looked unfavourably upon some of their associations and accreditations, I have no doubt that UCN are in a secure enough position at home that they would simply be asked to drop the offending relationships. And I have no doubt that they would do so. You don't spend 16 years trying to set yourself up as legitimate at home, and god knows how much money rebuilding your campus and building a second campus, and then throw it all away for a less than wonderful religiously exempt school in America.

So, this is my take on it. To me, these are 2 small problems that don't have a huge impact on the central university. I would take 10 small problems over one really big one any day of the week!

 

I just wanted to clarify what I was saying: UCN aren't doing anything that plenty of other legitimate schools aren't. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I like dodgy accreditation or running degree programs through unaccredited, less than wonderful, schools. I'm just saying that, if these things are a problem when they're done by an accredited, legitimate university, then they're a problem that is rife throughout academia.

It's common for accredited unis to offer courses through other institutions without their own degree-awarding power. The following 3 colleges, for example (all accredited by ASIC, incidentally) offer degree programs in the UK in partnership with UK universities:

City of London College CLC - City of London College - MBA, MSc, BA, BSc, Accountancy, Computers, Tourism Courses London

Hereford College of Art Hereford College of Arts - A specialist creative arts college in Hereford and the West Midlands

The London College UCK The London College, UCK

Now, there may be a question as to the quality of SOME of UCN's partners. But without seeing their curriculum of study, all we're doing is speculating that it's substandard. Is it a possibility? Of course. Might UCN be aware of it? They might, or they might not if they've appointed a 3rd party to form overseas relationships for them. Might they be actively improving these less-than-wonderful schools? Of course. Might it all be an alien conspiracy? Yep.

Speculation. It's not a valid substitute for facts.

And as to the accreditation thing -- well, I don't like it, but plenty of very legit institutions pad their resumes with sub-standard accreditation. From the ASIC website alone, you can see:

Amity University Amity - Leading best top ranked institutes, colleges and schools in India

Centre D’etudes Diplomatiques et Strategiques Centre d'tudes Diplomatiques et Stratgiques CEDS

ITM University ITM

Tehran University of Medical Sciences Tehran University of Medical Sciences

There are plenty of others, but I'm at work and don't have time to go through them all. Of the universities above, ITM is very highly respected in India, and TUMS is ranked as the top science university in Iran. So, plenty of good schools have unfortunate accreditation.

Now, this doesn't mean ASIC is decent (it's not, there are plenty of less-than-wonderfuls on there). But it should show that you can be a good school while holding unfortunate accreditation. And that you can be a good school while offering out your degrees through unaccredited (or unfortunately accredited) institutions without their own degree-awarding power.

I'm not saying I like those facts, but I am saying that they are the facts, and that they apply to higher education in general, not UCN in particular.

So, for me, while they engage in some behaviour I don't like, UCN are still clearly a legit university.

 

Thank you Stanislav, that's good info to have. It's always good when people like yourself and Koolcypher comment and offer the 'at home' perspective. To be clear: you're saying that this 3rd, Ukranian, school is a good school with the highest accreditation in the country, but that you suspect the doctorate they are offering is one that would not be officially recognised in the Ukraine itself?

 

Indeed they are, as I have agreed several times now. The only difference is our individual tolerance for this kind of behaviour, that neither of us likes.

I have exactly none. You are more tolerant than I and that's OK. Just about everybody is, and I fully realize that. I'm a rabid hard-liner when it comes to matters involving any form of dubious or less-than-meaningful accreditation, regardless of other valid qualifications held. Not everyone shares that view. I'll leave the subject alone, now.

Johann

 

I have ranted on this very topic a few times - and noted we don't have a similar problem in Canada. Usual response: "Yeah, so what?"

It's wrong as hell, of course -- immoral as I see it. But that fact does not legitimize or mitigate consorting with spooflicate accreditors -- or any other form of academic malfeasance - by any school.

Johann

 

That's right. Just for perspective, "highest" accreditation is no big deal, thousands of school have it. The brochure and website imply that 4th level means doctoral level, but no, it means Master's (what evaluates as doctorates are not "academic diplomas" in technical Ukrainian sense - they are "scientific degrees" and are separately regulated). But, yes, IUBL graduates in regular programs get degrees (little plastic cards) that can almost certainly be evaluated as RA-equivalent. IUBL also runs separately-approved doctoral programs and has the power to recommend graduates for official scientific degrees. But it looks like their "international" DBAs come from a separate program (of which there is no mention on their web site, BTW) and the diplomas are not recognised Ukrainian diplomas or degrees. They look like what many bogus "academies" peddle: a certificate that bears a name similar to the official stuff but is not the official stuff. This site knows of the "International Academy of Informatization" and their offshoot, WIDU - their original Russian organization is but one of dozens of such "academies". Their awards are not regulated by the government, because officially they are not academis or scientific degrees (or "academic titles": Docent, Professor, Academician).

 

By this: "IUBL also runs separately-approved doctoral programs and has the power to recommend graduates for official scientific degrees." do you mean the school runs the course, but it is the government who issue the degree?

If you have time, as a native speaker, would you mind dropping the school a short email asking them whether the DBA they are offering is recognised in Ukraine as such, or whether they are offering a kind of unrecognised-at-home doctorate?

This is perhaps tangential to the discussion of UCN degrees particularly, but is nonetheless good information to have in general.

If you don't have time, don't worry about it. But it would be good to get an official response from them.

Thanks Stan

 

It sounds as if there is a validation process here, with UCN issuing a degree on UCN paper and IUBL issuing it's own paper.

 

Oh yes. This site definitely does! And so do the other DL fora! :sad:

Johann

 

Stanislav - about 3 years back, you had this to say about International University of Business and Law:

Yes, you did. Here: http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/31877-iubl-international-university-business-law.html

Even now, you caution us that the IUBL DBAs look like those of "bogus academies." It doesn't inspire confidence, to say the least. I'm with JDG on this. If you want a UCN degree - fine, but stay close to the "mother ship" and avoid the other schools in the mix. Be sure you're getting a degree that says it's from UCN and nowhere else.

Johann

 

Stanislav, could you give me the link to UCN and IUBL joint doctorate programs? For some reason, I can't find it anywhere. I can only find them in partnership with Azteca. Also, the link that mentions WIDU?

Not that I doubt you at all, but it would be good to have a link to the information in the thread so we can all talk about it without making assumptions.

JGD

 

That is definitely a possibility Novadar. It would be good if we had a link to the web page Stan was talking about. I can't find anything that shows a dual degree program between the schools, so therefore can't really talk about it.

 

This is true. I have no idea which of the schools UCN is partnered with are any good. Some look OK - SMCU. Others look bad - UofA. In my opinion UCN is a legitimate school who offer safe degrees -- I haven't examined anyone they're partnered with close enough to say the same about them.

 

I've looked and looked. There are dual Azteca/IUBL programs and dual Azteca/UCN programs. No triples (thank goodness) and no sign of a dual UCN/IUBL. Maybe that's next week. Or maybe I missed it. Whatever. I don't think that exact combo is currently on the menu, but you could probably order one and they'd make it for you. :smile:

Johann

 

My take: stick with UCN. Regardless of the partner -- if two schools are involved, they have to split the take. Ergo, you're paying more than you would for one school. Since the major advantages of UCN are low cost and legitimacy -- you don't want to risk diluting either advantage.

And make sure (pre-evaluation or whatever) that the distance degree you want from UCN is acceptable where you live. I remember a Costa Rican school (UNEM) that was 100% accredited to teach three degrees (only) on its home turf -- but none outside the country. Yet they taught all sorts of fancy degrees by distance to foreigners, that had no standing whatsoever.

I'm not saying UCN would ever do this, though I can't vouch for all its partners. It's just that when you're dealing offshore, you have to cover all the bases.

Johann

 

Ha ha, well perhaps. But lets just assess them on things they're doing, not things we think they might do if we asked them to! While I have openly said (and we agree here) that I don't approve of all it's partnerships, just because Azteca and UCN are partnered doesn't mean that UCN is in any way responsible for any of the other partnerships Azteca have, or the things they do -- I mean if that were the case, the university of Wales would have pretty much taken down the entire UK education system, as they had partnerships with a multitude of decent UK universities as well as their other more questionable companions. And those universities had yet more partnerships with others etc. To some extent, your culpability ends with you, and if my friend goes out and stabs a guy, I wouldn't expect to be tried for murder (although I would probably pay more attention to who I hung around with).

 

I agree with this 100%

 

For sure. For one rare, brief moment, I was joking - next week, restaurant analogy. Those moments are so rare, you can't be blamed for thinking I might be serious. :smile: Glad you agree with my pay-one-school and cover-all-bases thinking. That part was for real.

Johann