Trumpian daydream

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The Former Occupant is now claiming that he will be arrested Tuesday and he's calling for protest demonstrations. Since he hasn't yet been charged with anything (as far as the Press knows) this is just another lie. Doubtless Tucker Carlson will do his best to spread it.

    This is an interesting legal question. Calling for protests is probably protected speech but calling upon his followers to resist the arrest on his behalf would be a whole new crime.

    Fun to watch.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Anybody gets injured - or dies - then it won't be. :(
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't think what he said was a crime per se, but it might contribute to assessing his state of mind when he acted/didn't act on January 6th.
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    No. Public lies aren't per se crimes. Plotting further acts of insurrection might be.
  6. Vicki

    Vicki Well-Known Member

    So, he’s trying to activate his loony base to “protest”, which will turn to riot…. To defend the previous protest that turned to riot.
    Johann likes this.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You got it, Vicki. Loony base - loony leader. Only consolation I can think of: "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." (Popularized by Bob Fitzsimmons, 19th Century American boxer.)
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I was talking to a relative from New York. She was really stoked about watching this nonsense play out in New York. She seemed downright giddy. All I could think of was that idiot Trump supporter attacking the FBI field office and being killed.

    I think that it would be best if I could change my attitude to more closely align with my NY relative's attitude and Nosborne's attitude. It seems more fun and smarter to consider the whole sad situation "Fun to watch"! :D (LOL smilely added as the first step to help me fix my attitude problem)
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I see why they're taking precautions, but Trump won't be there.

    The main evidence that Trump will be indicted on Tuesday comes from Trump himself. But he would not exactly be the first person to know. And he said he was to be arrested, which is simply not true.

    His attorney will be served the indictment and be invited to set up a time for Trump to surrender, upon which he'll be booked then released (either on his own recognizance or on bail). No arrest, no handcuffs, no perp walk, and no orange jumpsuit.

    This case is the least of his legal troubles, which is why I wish it wasn't going first. I would prefer he be hit with federal charges first. But no matter what, "law and order" politicians of a certain ilk will throw away their principles, oaths, and loyalty to the nation in favor of attacking and undermining the legal process. That's too bad.

    It's utterly normal for a former public official to face criminal charges. Many have been indicted, tried, convicted, and sentenced to prison. It's so unusual in this case not because a president is being indicted. That's an outcome. The real cause is that we have a president who has committed so many crimes before, during, and after his presidency. Prosecuting him should be a pretty normal thing.

    I wonder if he'll stick around, though. So far he's been convinced he'll get away with it all. But if he's sure they've got the goods and are willing to prosecute him on something that will bring prison time, I wonder if he'll stay. A Gulfstream G650 has enough range to get from Miami to Riyadh nonstop. Good news for Giuliani, Corcoran, Powell, et al: the G650 seats up to 15, depending on how many Big Macs and Diet Cokes are brought along.
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There's no need to issue an arrest warrant. If the grand jury indicts the DA could (should) file his indictment and have the trial court issue a summons. Trump could then waive arraignment and enter a not guilty plea without ever appearing in New York.

    Now here's where it gets interesting. Suppose NY charges Trump with a felony or several. He waives arraignment from Florida but come to trial day he fails to appear. The DA would seek a Governor's Warrant from the Governor of New York which would then be delivered to (guess who?) Governor Ron DeSantis! DeSantis would then issue his own warrant to have Trump arrested (if he's still in the state) and held for the New York authorities to collect.

    DeSantis has no discretion. The sole issue in the rendering state is identity. Given that DeSantis has a history of ignoring the constitution when it's politically convenient would he find a way to avoid the fury of the MAGA base?

  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    As an aside, Governor's Warrants used to be very ornate documents. New Mexico's was printed on a legal size sheet of heavy cream colored stationery with a gold foil seal and red and yellow ribbons.
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    DeSantis might discover for himself why telling endless lies to a credulous Base is a bad long term political strategy. If your Party tells people that an elected official can refuse to certify a "stolen" election the day may come when that same Base might demand that you, too, perform illegal acts.
  13. Vicki

    Vicki Well-Known Member

    How on earth did we get here? How the heck did Trump garner such devotion from his minions? How does he get away with all this crap?
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well...historians will be debating this for as long as there are historians. I'm not a scholar of history or political science or economics or anything else but I did watch the whole mess evolve and I have a them possible culprits.

    You have to go back a long way to Carter and Reagan and the end of the post WWII prosperity. Our federal government began to push free trade aggressively to the point where smaller nations found their sovereignty compromised by decisions of the multinational trade bodies.

    Free trade absolutely delivered on its promises! Prices dropped and worldwide poverty fell like a rock in the ocean. But there was a downside here in the U.S. Several of our domestic industries disappeared. Textiles, electronics and pharmaceuticals left for lower priced climates. This destroyed whole communities of American workers leaving them insecure and with no clear future. Meanwhile the biggest corporations and Wall Street got richer and richer while the working middle class gradually lost ground to the point where the very middle class began to disappear or seemed to.

    Nobody in Washington cared.

    Ordinary people began to live on debt which was more and more secured by their houses. An artificial prosperity based on housing prices rather than wealth production kept people feeling well off when in fact they weren't. Then the bottom fell out.

    Washington responded as it has since the New Deal with enormous support for the bankers and financial "industry" but nothing for ordinary folks who lost their houses and retirement funds and never recovered. Worse, none of the Wall Street folks went to prison.

    Two movements arose out of the ensuing rage. First, the Tea Party which with the Religious Right finally gave us President Trump. Through Trump the Hard Right got the power they have craved for so long.

    Second, the Occupy Wall Street movement which changed the conversation into a very Us vs. Them footing. The two groups won't ever admit it but they're expressing similar rage against self serving elites.

    Well, that's my view from 30,000 feet. Probably too general to be helpful even if it's accurate. No guarantee there, either.
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  15. Vicki

    Vicki Well-Known Member

    Interesting summary. It's still baffling how the "Religious Right" puts their faith in Trump. A corrupt wealthy man is suddenly the voice and champion of the common man. HA!
  16. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Some of them literally believe him to be the second coming of Christ, which I find even more baffling than just supporting Trump.
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    We elected Donald Trump our president. In doing so, we validated all of his lawlessness. We're subsequently spending years trying to undo it and live it down.

    Imagine...Donald Trump as President of the United States. It was inconceivable before it happened. Ironically, it remained inconceivable after it did--and remains so to this day. The country has become so laissez-faire about its politics and so jaded about its governance that it came to that. We'll be suffering from this for decades to come.
    Rachel83az and nosborne48 like this.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Trump supported and further inflamed the fears of his "disciples" and their rage against their chosen enemies. e.g. "A total ban on all Muslim immigration." He knew (or somebody told him) that fear and ignorance are strong uniting forces. He "supported" his targeted audience by fanning the flames, they united behind him - and look what happened. A large audience. I read that the "religious right" numbers over 60 million individuals. That's a lot of votes.

    As to the second coming of Christ -- mainstream Christians believe it will happen some day. No problem with that. But, I can see fervent, fanatical Christians under the spell of Trump believing it was happening "right now." People all over the world have been subject to mass manias and delusions for so long. I don't think this is much different from other hysterias. Strange things happen under the Revival Tent. And not always good things.
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Because nothing matters more than "owning the Dems".
  20. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    For the fun of it, I tried to rack my brain to find parallels between Trump and Christ, but all I could come up with was that they're both the same species and gender.

    Could you imagine:

    - Trump refusing absolute political power?

    - Trump doing manual labor for a living?

    - Trump living a simple life amongst the common folk?

    - Trump having empathy for people who were disadvantaged and hurting?

    - Trump being a skilled orator?

    - Trump sacrificing his life for the common good of mankind?

    Rachel83az, Johann and Bill Huffman like this.

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