Trident's accreditation is in jeopardy

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by SteveFoerster, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  2. swarehouse

    swarehouse New Member

    It will be interesting to see if the damage control TUI performs is enough to save their accreditation. I don't know if the steps they outlined in the article go far enough.
  3. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    Wow, WASC issued an order to show cause. From WASC:

  4. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    I am not surprised at all.
  5. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I know it's never a positive thing, but is it common for students who graduated before accreditation lapse (eg, Randall1234) to have problems with presenting their degree to employers? Do they find that the school's accreditation loss tarnishes their reputation to the point that even the accredited degree is given less respect?
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    That's hard to say, however, it's not a position I would want to be in.

  7. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Me either!!!!!!!
  8. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Realistically, it could be a problem even if the employer has never heard of the school. An employer that was unfamiliar with the institution might, for example, check it out by looking it up in a database of accredited schools. But in practice, such databases often include only currently accredited institutions -- they may or may not include formerly accredited institutions which have lost their accreditation or closed. If they don't, then an employer might not see the school in the database, and conclude (incorrectly) that the school was unaccredited.

    For example, I just checked up on Northrop University, a previously well-known engineering school in California. Northrop was regionally accredited by WASC from 1960 until it closed in 1992, and it issued over 25,000 degrees. However, there were no lisstings for this school in the CHEA database of accredited institutions, or the USDoE database of accredited institutions, or the WASC list of accredited institutions.

    The WASC website did include Northrop on a list of formerly accredited schools, but this was a different list that had to be checked separately. Furthermore, I think Northrop was also ABET accredited, yet I was unable to find any reference to the school on the ABET website.

    So if your school loses accreditation -- whether due to academic or financial problems, or due to closure -- its previous accreditation status can become difficult for employers (or anyone else) to recognize or verify.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2011
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    That could be a problem, I would think Chea would have a section that shows that.
  10. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    According to CHEA, they just take the data that they get from WASC:

    If WASC doesn't include historically accredited institutions in its submittals to CHEA -- and it appears that they don't -- then such institutions won't show up in the CHEA database.


    I tried another test with a younger school. This time I checked the accreditation status of New College of California, which was accredited by WASC from 1976 until it closed in 2008. New College of California did not exist in the CHEA database, despite the fact that it was regionally accredited until just three years ago.

    So if Trident loses WASC accreditation, it may drop out of the CHEA database of accredited schools. In that case, an employer using the CHEA database could easily come to the incorrect conclusion about the accreditation status of Trident degrees.


    Interestingly, New College of California did show up as a formerly WASC-accredited school in the USDoE database. So USDoE's database is better in this respect. As noted above, neither CHEA nor USDoE recognized Northrop University, but that's a significantly older issue, since Northrop closed in 1993.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2011
  11. Shal916

    Shal916 New Member

    Trident University International Accreditation problems

    As I posted before but was told I am out of my mind, TUI students should be aware of the WASC problem that is going on. From TUI's website:

    Response to WASC statement

    In a letter delivered last week, the Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities (Commission) of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) issued Trident University International (TUI) an order to Show Cause why the accreditation of the institution should not be terminated as of March 30, 2012. The Commission initiated the Show Cause action because the Commission found that TUI was not in compliance with elements of two WASC Standards for Accreditation. WASC found the noncompliance resulted from deficiencies in the University’s systems that verify that each undergraduate student has met all general education requirements for a bachelors degree as well as a delay in identifying the issue and not notifying WASC.

    The accredited status of TUI continues during the Show Cause period, and TUI will maintain the quality of its educational offerings. Furthermore, the Show Cause notice will not affect TUI’s ability to meet the educational needs of our current and incoming students during the Show Cause period. Providing the highest quality education remains our primary goal.

    As an institution committed to high standards and student success, TUI understands the gravity of this situation and wants to reassure our dedicated students and exceptional faculty that we accept full reponsibility for complying with WASC standards.

    TUI takes pride in our accreditation by WASC, an organization renowned for its rigorous accreditation standards and review processes. We welcome the direction and guidance provided by WASC and appreciate the opportunity to satisfy WASC’s accreditation requirements. To this end, TUI is committed to instituting the necessary systems, policies and practices that will meet or exceed WASC’s standards. TUI will work closely with WASC to minimize the impact on students and graduates.

    To oversee the development and implementation of needed improvements, and to lead the institution through this important time with the highest integrity and transparency, TUI has already implemented a change in senior leadership. New operating and support systems have been identified and are under review for immediate implementation. Academic leadership has reviewed and updated the University’s general education requirements and procedures resulting in accuracy and compliance improvements to administrative credit transfer processes. TUI is also initiating rigorous and frequent training for staff on the most relevant and up-to-date degree and program requirements, as well as WASC standards, to improve ongoing compliance. Additionally, TUI plans to put into action an institution-wide Non-Compliance Alert Policy that will be designed to quickly identify any future incidents and will require internal reporting and prompt notification to WASC where appropriate.

    TUI’s implementation of WASC’s directions will strengthen the institution’s operational foundation and ensure that all graduates have fulfilled their general education requirements. While on Show Cause, TUI will be monitored by the Commission, with a special visit in the fall of 2011 to evaluate the University’s progress in addressing the Commission’s concerns.

    We look forward to working with WASC in the coming months to maintain our tradition of academic and institutional excellence and to help busy working professionals, active and reserve duty military personnel, veterans and their families achieve their higher education goals.

    From WASC :

    At its meeting on June 22-24, 2011, the Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities acted to issue an order to Show Cause why the accreditation of Trident University International should not be terminated as of March 30, 2012. A Show Cause action reflects the Commission's finding that the institution is substantially out of compliance with one or more of the Standards of Accreditation and must demonstrate within one year why its accreditation should not be terminated. As stated in the 2008 Handbook of Accreditation, the burden of proof now rests on the University.

    So I just hope that Trident can show that they should not loose their accreditation. All students please be alert about this serious issue.
  12. Shal916

    Shal916 New Member

  13. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    So, I assume there are different levels of "being in trouble" with WASC. It looks like there is warning, probation, and Show Cause. What has been the typically outcome of "Show Cause" cases? To be honest, this really sucks! Not even so much for my not even printed yet MBA, but for my MS-ITM I earned when TUI was part of Touro (B&M / private / non-profit) in 2004.

    Screw it all, I am signing up with a public Florida school for a masters! Maybe they won't be spun off and sold off! :saeek:
  14. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    Graduates of Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College, New York) are NOT graduates of Trident University International (formerly TUI University). To claim or represent oneself otherwise (including Alumni membership with Trident) is fraudulent. As a student/graduate of Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College) you have the right to demand that your academic records be maintained and issued by Touro College (the parent institution), and you should have exercised that right. It is disappointing how many of you pretend to be experts on education and education law, and fundamental and critical issues are not understood.

    Trident University International (formerly TUI University, a for profit entity) is NOT a continuation of Touro University International (a non-profit entity). Touro University International was closed in October 2007 and the assets (NOT THE INSTITUTION) sold to Summit Partners, and a new institution, TUI University (now Trident University International) was formed and incorporated around October/November 2007.

    Also, it is important to note that Touro University International operated as a Division of Touro University California (a Branch Campus of Touro College). Touro University Nevada also operates as a Division of Touro University California.

    Furthermore, the web address for Touro University International (Touro College - Home Page) is now linked directly to Touro College (Touro College - Home Page).

    Touro College (now expanded to Touro College and University System) is a major, well-respected institution, which recently acquired the prestigious NYMC (New York Medical College).

  15. Shal916

    Shal916 New Member

    Not to go crazy on TUI but they have a special "hotline" that students can call to get any questions answered. After calling the hotline they are saying that the accreditation problems are due to the "past management" and now they have new management in place so they can make things better. Hmm I doubt this new management is going to stop the certified mail termination letter from coming. :smashfreakB:
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    It's nice of them to have set it all up in such a simple, streamlined, and easy to understand/remember manner.:indifferent:
  17. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    Like anything in life, choice of school includes a risk/reward benefit tradeoff. It's just that these issues with for-profits are things most of us don't calculate into the equation until something bad happens. There are valid reasons to choose these programs such as: pace, availability, cost, accessibility. That those things don't exist in public programs is why alternatives exist.

    I think eventually one of the factors folks will have to take into consideration when examining a school is how stable the entity has been. But then, people do this with other businesses, so why not DL schools too?

    And public programs aren't perfect either: I saw some papers submitted to Cal State SB classes a few years ago that wouldn't have passed strict APA/professionalism-oriented graders in many non-profit/for-profit schools. I'm actually hoping alternatives continue to exist, because without them public programs will simply continue a gradual slide into mediocrity.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2011
  18. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    I agree and I thought my calculated risk. Since TUI was part of Touro (B&M / non-profit and well respected), I thought the risk was minimized or close to eliminated...I guess that is why I do not gamble!
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Let's put it this way: Trident University International is currently owned by Summit Partners. And it is nothing more than one of the 60+ brands in the Summit Partners "portfolio", along with brands like:

    - Aramsco (safety products)
    - Belkin (tech accessories)
    - Bigpoint (online gaming)
    - Crosman (air rifles)
    - National Veterinary Associates (animal hospitals)
    - Snap Fitness (24-hour fitness centers)

    Trident University International ("online university") fits in alphabetically right between Tivoli Audio ("innovative home audio products") and Ubiquiti Networks ("broadband wireless network solutions"). For Summit, Trident literally is "another business".

    You can bet that Summit makes cold, hard, business decisions about all of the brands that it invests in -- including Trident. If you are considering a school like this, then you better be prepared to take a similar attitude.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2011
  20. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    Hi Randell1234:

    Indeed, it was a well-calculated risk, and a smart move on your part to have pursued a Master’s degree at Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College). Your diploma indicates Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College), so smile and walk tall. Any authoritative source/database will show that Touro College and Touro University California exist with MD, DO, JD, Master's, and Doctoral (practice and scholarship) degrees. Again, Touro University International operated as a Division of Touro University California.

    Now, while I don’t know much about Trident University International (formerly TUI University), the current accreditation situation will quite likely prove a “blessing in disguise” for their students and graduates. However, first, Summit Partners MUST appoint an appropriately qualified PhD-level academic (and not a Master’s level “Fortunue 500” manager)to serve as the President. Also, as you know, in the US, any institution that serves the military is here to STAY, not to mention one that has a student/graduate population of at least 80% military. That’s the strength of Trident - the military members they serve.

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