Transfer fr SCUPS to NCU

Simon,

The facts are presented as they exist, and my opinions are clearly stated as such -- nothing more: nothing less. Therefore, the current information is what it is, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with my subsequent opinions.

Without any convincing information to the contrary, it is difficult to dispute the associations presented directly from public records and the subject websites. Therefore, I stand by my opinion that close associations do clearly exist between NCU and SCUP, and I believe the presented evidence supports the same. Again, you can certainly disagree with my opinion. However, absent of any supported counter-arguments, evidence or objection, your disagreement does nothing to discard the facts as presented, nor does it impeach my opinion or that of others who may agree.

Accordingly, I have no additional burden of proof to overcome and owe you no further discussion -- unless of course, you have something additional to offer in terms of information, supported objections or specific items that you would like to intelligently debate.

Our readers are intelligent people, so they will formulate their own opinions based on the sum of all information they read. Accordingly, bring additional information that is productive and convincing to the discussion and I'm confident that everyone will be happy to evaluate and consider what you have to say.

Tom

 

Re: Re: A couple of notes

Good post, Carlosb! I didn't know this about PWU and AACSB.

Sulla

 

Not knowing who owns a university

Sometimes, when you post something in writing, it gets misinterpreted. I was simply curious about how anyone would know who owned NCU and that is why I asked, because it was not obvious to me. I am now sorry that I asked. However, I must respond to your above accusatory quote. Why don't you do a survey and see what percentage of college students, DL or otherwise, that attend private institutions, and find out if they know who "owns" the university. I did not feel I needed to know who owned it. I needed to know that it was accredited and offered what I was seeking. The other questions are out of curioisity, not necessity. It was not a significant matter to me, though the very quote above indicates I thought it was very important, I never said it was important to me. I just asked because you knew! It was just conversation and should not have gotten out of hand like this. You posted a statement about knowing that Dr. Hescht owned it and I was just curious (meant in a polite way when I asked, not accusatory even though I guess that is not how it was taken and for that I apologize). It wasn't that important and I still would not bother inquiring at NCU or NCA unless I had a more compelling reason to find out the ownership.

 

Not knowing who owns a university

Sometimes, when you post something in writing, it gets misinterpreted. I was simply curious about how anyone would know who owned NCU and that is why I asked, because it was not obvious to me. I am now sorry that I asked. However, I must respond to your above accusatory quote. Why don't you do a survey and see what percentage of college students, DL or otherwise, that attend private institutions, and find out if they know who "owns" the university. I did not feel I needed to know who owned it. I needed to know that it was accredited and offered what I was seeking. The other questions are out of curioisity, not necessity. It was not a significant matter to me, though the very quote above indicates I thought it was very important, I never said it was important to me. I just asked because you knew! It was just conversation and should not have gotten out of hand like this. You posted a statement about knowing that Dr. Hescht owned it and I was just curious (meant in a polite way when I asked, not accusatory even though I guess that is not how it was taken and for that I apologize). It wasn't that important and I still would not bother inquiring at NCU or NCA unless I had a more compelling reason to find out the ownership.

 

More often than not, when one attends a private college or university, one does not generally ask who owns the place, one simply asks whether they offer the program you need, which is exactly the same question you would ask if you were planning on attending Friendly Neighborhood Community College, Friendly Neighborhood State College, or Friendly Neighborhood State University. When I attended City University from 1991 to 1993, I knew that Dr. Pastore was founder and president of the university. But I neither knew nor cared whether he owned all of the university, a majority interest in the university, a minority of the university, or none of the university. What was important to me was that they were the only university in my area offering an MBA in Entrepreneurship and they were easy to get into for somebody who had washed out of the MA in Mediaeval History at the University of Colorado at Boulder with a 1.94 GPA five years earlier.

 

NCU ownership

I talked to my chair and the EVP five months ago about their financials and plans and I've seen their corporate credit report. I don't need or want to know their entire business to make a decision, but did want to know their basic plan and exit strategy. That is, when, how do they intend to compete and if they were going to sell NCU. I wanted to know because I agree with and appreciate the "Doc's" as they call Dr. Hecht apparently, sound and conservative business plan for slow, measured, largely organic growth. He's a niche player in a market of gorillas like Apollo Group (U of Phoenix) and others like Laureate Education (Walden) with public capital access (public companies). Being tied to the hip of any firm during their sale and restaffing is absolutely no fun, I can promise you.

For example as is shows on Walden's site (and on the holding companies site), http://www.waldenu.edu/c/About/About_221.htm
NASDAQ: SLVN), NASDAQ: SLVN), Sylvan Ventures, LLC, a subsidiary of Sylvan Learning Systems, Inc. (later renamed Laureate Education, Inc.) paid $32.8 million for 41% ownership of Walden University and in 2004, bought the rest of Walden. The industry has been and will continue to be active as companies fight for a very rapidly growing dollar. I'm not presenting an industry analysis here, but the big guys and come to the top and many firms, especially when the NASDAQ melted down years back, were blown out of the market. NCU has prospered because Hecht knows what the heck he's doing in my opinion.

To the extent that Doc co branded with this company in California during the development phase of NCU is no big deal to me because the man is smart enough to know his business, in my opinion. He'd be a fool to dilute the value of his RA for NCU, so I see his financial incentives aligned with what this forum would want, although he may not react as quickly as some would like.

Going with the little guy is always more risk, but I'm happy with NCU at this juncture.

With the unfortunate exception here and there by those who can't seem to carry a thread's topic forward, I find this forum helpful and hope this adds soem perspective to the discussion.

 

Re: Not knowing who owns a university

SUELAINE:

"Simon, how do you know all this?"


SIMON:

The above quote can easily be interpreted to mean that you were SHOCKED to learn the information I reported, were extremely motivated to determine how I was able to find this information and projects a sense of urgency and suspicion. Although in hindsight you defensively claim otherwise indicating that you were merely "just curious", "not accusatory" or that this issue was"not important" or "significant", it does not jive with the sense of urgency intimated in your original question above.


Please understand that no one is able to read your mind and know what you really meant to state. If you meant something else that is fine but to expect others to know this is absurd. In fact, I don't have to conduct any surveys or be told that my posts are accusatory. The responsible lies with you in terms of writing and expressing what you mean to convey and not place the onerous responsibility on the reader to decipher or attempt to interpret what you actually meant to state.

 

Re: Not knowing who owns a university

SUELAINE:

"Simon, how do you know all this?"


SIMON:

The above quote can easily be interpreted to mean that you were SHOCKED to learn the information I reported, were extremely motivated to determine how I was able to find this information and projects a sense of urgency and suspicion. Although in hindsight you defensively claim otherwise indicating that you were merely "just curious", "not accusatory" or that this issue was"not important" or "significant", it does not jive with the sense of urgency intimated in your original question above.


Please understand that no one is able to read your mind and know what you really meant to state. If you meant something else that is fine but to expect others to know this is absurd. In fact, I don't have to conduct any surveys or be told that my posts are accusatory. The responsible lies with you in terms of writing and expressing what you mean to convey and not place the onerous responsibility on the reader to decipher or attempt to interpret what you actually meant to state.

 

Not perfect

Simon,
I am sorry that I wrote something that was misinterpreted. It is my fault. Please don't continue this; I do not need any further lectures about people not being able to read my mind. I already know all that and I made a mistake because I'm human, and sometimes also a jerk though I really don't mean to be.

 

Re: NCU ownership

Great research, Messagewriter!

My decision boiled down to three issues:

1. RA
2. Taught by adjuncts with current real-world experience in the field they teach in
3. Courses fit my lifestyle

Totally meaningless to me:

1. Ranking
2. AACSB, ACBSP, etc
3. Costs
4. Not for profit vs for profit

I decided to go the NCU route.

Unlike some here that have a vested interest in their opinions, I have none and will continue to call it as I see it. If I see something about NCU I do not like I will discuss it here like I did with the DBA – Hanoi Issue.


Just my opinion

 

Re: Not perfect

Suelaine,

No problem and no need to call yourself names. I wish you the best at NCU and look forward to your completing the doctoral program and letting us know the good news. Best regards, Simon

 

Re: Re: NCU ownership

Hey thanks Carlos. I just started this "Newbie-Just started PhD BA Finance program" in the "New Kid on the Block" forum on NCU's server.

Your reasoning is sound, not that I'm any expert. And I agree, objectivity is crucial if logic is to pervail.

I just declined an offer from Nova, but they had been telling me that they could afford the money and time to go through the AACSB process, but the real snag was that their board was unwilling to bend on the payroll of having to hire so many PhDs. These new PhDs would not have the applied street smarts brought in by the professional's who they get as adjuncts. Nova's in a good sized MSA (rich area), so they have some serious players teaching the students. Also, Nova indicated this similar reasoning was followed in not going forward with a PhD program in the business school. As it is, they have a DBA with lots of adjunts, and this is an institution with a $300,000,000 budget! AACSB's not for everyone for sure and there are some, like Nova I believe, forego AACSB by choice.

Hey, squirt me a message behind the firewall sometime.

MW

 

Tesch,

Amusing? Yes, that sums up your posts perfectly. Pills? Based on the manner you present in your posts, I wouldn't make any comments about others taking pills because the medication you would need would be a great deal stronger than mine!

As noted in my previous post you have showed an association between the schools. So, what? What you presented wasn't revelatory or significant because it was known for quite awhile that the curriculums were very similar and there was sharing of faculty. I did not diagree and neither did anyone else. So what else is new? A Lewis and Clark, Columbus and Ponce De Leo you are not? A "legend in your own mind" is more like it.

Although you deny having any other motive then merely showing an association, your conducting this overstated "research" does not go unnoticed and it appears that you are attempting to make a point but have not articulated what it is. Or is it that you just enjoy hyperintellectualizing and engaging in vapid discussions leading to nowhere? Well whatever amuses you and btw amuses us as well.

Simon

 

Excuse me, Simon? You've spent the majority of this thread attacking tesch and Suelaine. It seems to me that you need to ask Dr. Everything'll Be All Right to write you a scrip for some happy pills!

 

Simon,

I see that have chosen to make some more noise and continue an attack. However, beyond the flailing nonsense, your barking has done nothing to address or show why the facts that I presented are wrong and or why the conclusions I have drawn from those facts are incorrect.

Rest assured, there are no Lewis and Clark-type expeditions, overstated research, hyperintellectualizing (cool word), vapid discussion, or failure to articulate my position going on here. I have simply presented and discussed information that illuminates an obvious extension of associations between NCU and SCUPS, and I formulated an opinion that the ongoing associations and interrelationships appear quite strong. These types of issues have a history of relevance and interest to participants on this board.

Perhaps, there is more of an issue with you carefully reading and understanding what is said, or a lack of willingness to follow and engage in a coherent and productive discussion.

Again, our DI readers are intelligent people. So if you have no additional information to offer, lets have our readers formulate their own opinions and determine what is relevant based on their own evaluation of the information and what it means.

Tom

 

Excuse me Ted!

It is obvious that Dr. Freud can be of assistance to you specifically for misperceiving and distorting facts and not being able to distinguish an attack from a disagreement.

In relation to Suelaine she earnestly indicated that although she meant to state something else, her post directed to me could be interpreted in a way that she did not intend. So, there was no attack by either of us but a misunderstanding. Suelaine does not need a defender and did not request you to be her savior.

Now let's examine the next delusion you have of my "attacking" others.

Tesch took on MY post, not the other way around, attempting to show that there is an association between SCUPS and NCU. It is apparent that he is actually attempting to show that they are one and the same institutions although separated by different boards which I totally disagree based on discussions I had with two senior representatives of NCA. He presents "evidence" relating similarities in curriculum and sharing of staff which is old hat and nothing sensational or novel. However, it is presented as if it is earth shattering and proves his point (what point?). In fact, SCUPS psychology program is almost a replica of NCUs and this is common knowledge as well. What he doesn't do is actually come out and say what he is initmating but not saying directly and I was just helping him along.

In fact, SCUPS and NCU are two distinct institutions with different boards, ownership and and with completely separate financial structures. If anyone was attacking another it was Tesch not myself due to his defensiveness regarding another poster stongly disagreeing (not attacking my well adjusted friend) with his "brilliant" posts.

So, Dr. Freud is waiting for you in the rubber room. His speciality is working through delusions of being attacked by others and being a defender of posters who did not need or ask for defense.

 

Tom,

Because you have not proved your case it is important not to attempt to negate another poster's perspective by misrepresenting their disagreement with you as an attack when in fact it is a position that you don't like!

Contrary to your self beliefs, you have not illuminated anything of consequence that sheds light on the subject at hand. The real question is what is your motivation in attempting to show any "association" between these schools? Quite frankly you have not provided anything novel or relevant to assist posters in developing a better understanding as to whether a relationship/association between NCU and SCUPS actually exists and to what extent or degree. Sharing similar curriculums and staff is old hat. Were you aware that the doctoral programs in psychology of both schools including the formats and curriculum are very similar as well? So what?

It appears that you are attempting to roil other posters by intimating that something unsavory is going on between these two institutions but instead of being direct in your belief you "drop" your furtive remarks and questionable research and then run to the underbrush to hide. However, before going into hiding you attempt to plant the seed of doubt in posters' minds regarding NCU and I feel uncomfortable with such tactics.

However, you are right about one thing that the posters on this board are bright and independent thinkers and if they are interested they will verify what you and I say and will formulate their own assessments whether there is any "associations" between these schools that should be of concern to them.

Simon

 

Simon! I would think that the individual who transformed this thread into deep and mysterious probes into mysteries and conspiracies is hardly qualified to be diagnosing others as having persecution complex or tossing others into rubber rooms!