Touro professor "very upset" with John Bear

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by John Bear, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. macattack

    macattack New Member

    From: United States Copyright Office

    What Works Are Protected?

    Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:

    literary works;
    musical works, including any accompanying words
    dramatic works, including any accompanying music
    pantomimes and choreographic works
    pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
    motion pictures and other audiovisual works
    sound recordings
    architectural works
    These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most “compilations” may be registered as “literary works”; maps and architectural plans may be registered as “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works.”

    As far as the Fare Use exception, I believe you can only quote small passages. The author did not post this email for the public to see. An attorney could easily make a case that this email was a "literary work" - it is a "tangible form of expression".

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney so don't take my word for it, call the Copyright Office if your really as interested in this as you say you are.

    I don't think many people would want you posting their private emails on the internet for the world to see. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. ;)
  2. bad92lx

    bad92lx New Member


    I have been in the IT industry for quite some time and I can assure you that NO email is sacred unless encrypted and directly identified as personal and confidential.

    So Dr. Bear was within his rights to share the data verbatim as he provided the author and took no credit for their writing.

    I see no issue here.
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Conversely, if it feels right then it is? Well then I'd only point out that people forward email all the time in both their private and professional lives. During the course of my day I routinely forward 20 emails per day, all without the knowledge and permission of the "author." There's even that little Bcc function that allows you to forward it to someone without others knowing. You've stretched a few definitions trying to fit this under the copyright laws but your point is totally eclipsed by the fact that this occurs all over the world, every day. I'll bet that it even happens in the copywrite office itself. You may be on firmer ground if you simply say it's not polite but to try to claim it's illegal just seems silly.
  4. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Dr. Bear is just publicly withdrawing a statement in the same medium he declared it (this forum) and explaining to the rest of us the context. This is something very common in communication circles, and I think it is very honorable and ethical Dr. Bear did that. I am sure Dr. Gold from TUI is pleased with his gentleman response.

    Some of you truly need to get a life.

    Thank you, Dr. Bear, for teaching a lesson to a few here. I doubt they will ever get it though.
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    John Bear quoted these remarks of Steven Gold's:

    I would like to remind this gentleman that Touro University International was advertising itself in the 'Wall Street Journal' as "fully accredited" before it had even opened its doors. That's quite a feat. Not even the new University of California at Merced has managed it.

    In fact apart from the New York college itself, it's a real question whether ANY domestic Touro entity, including Touro University International, Touro University California (and its Nevada spinoff) or Touro College Los Angeles has ever applied for initial regional accreditation like a normal school or ever served a moment of candidacy.

    None of them entered through the front door, did they?

    It may or may not be true that Touro University International operated its own admissions and records system from the beginning and had nothing to do with the corruption in the NY office. I suspect that it's likely true, since TUI has always seemed like a separate school with the same ownership.

    Of course, the more separate and distinct TUI and TC-NY were from the very beginning, then the more TUI's 'substantive change' accreditation-shortcut is revealed to have been a gimmick. They were either one school or they were two schools. They can't have things both ways, according to what happens to best serve their purposes at the moment.
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No. The Middle States specifically included TUI in Touro's regional accreditation. That made gradautes of TUI graduates of an RA school. That was the point Bear was making--that there were and are reasons to wonder how much cross-over there is and was between TUI and Touro.

    If the perpetrators were accessing computer records and altering them, why couldn't they access TUI's? Perhaps they are completely different systems. But perhaps not.
  7. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Your right, it does happen. Usually your emails are not forwarded to the rest of the world though (posting to the internet).

    Perhaps reading this article will provide a little insight to our inquiry Copyright on the Internet.

    I ask, at what point does one's expression contained in an email fall under the copyright definitions. What about a newsletter or a handout you have written? What if you forward a poem you have written or how about a song? Or a video clip of your dog performing a trick? What if you attach a picture or maybe your thesis. Does it make a difference if you send it to your cousin, what if they forward it to their work buddy? What if they post it to the internet? I guess its a grey area, perhaps thats why many employers are going to the length of including in emails a little blurb at the bottom about not distributing the email to others (in other words, giving notice to the copyright).

    Honestly, I don't really care about copyright and emails and I never said I "was so certain in my opinion". I just stated what I believed to be true at the time. Give me a break dude.

    Kizmet, I have to ask. Do you, in normal life (not internet-land), say things during conversation like "I would ask macattack to cite a particular statute (since you seem to be so certain in your opinion)." or "I'd want some validation of this claim before I made any decision." I mean, if we were at Starbucks having coffee and and conversation about emails and copyright laws, would you really talk like that. "Validate your claim" Joe, "cite the particular statute". People "talk" silly on internet discussion boards.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2007
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    True, but that's the point -- we're not talking. Most people write and speak very differently. Besides, this isn't exactly MySpace. It's seems a bit odd to criticize academic-style writing on a forum about higher education.

  9. Dave C.

    Dave C. New Member

    I'm left wondering why I read all that...
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    OK dude, I won't harsh your buzz.

    What you're saying is that you want to be able to say anything you like and not be held accountable.


    I won't take your comments seriously in the future.

    Have a nice latte, dude.
  11. macattack

    macattack New Member


    I come in peace! I just found that some of your recent posts were kind of "in your face". I already quoted a couple of your remarks. I never claim to no it all. By all means, hold me accountable, just do it in a cordial way.

    I hope you will find that I post many valid comments and do offer something to the board.

    By the way, I am addicted to Americano's not Latte's.

    Peace :)
  12. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Make that know it all :D
  13. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    "Have a nice latte, dude."

    When I go to Barnes & Noble, I order a cafe mocha with whipped cream. With a mocha on one hand and a business magazine in another, I am in heaven. Not fan of the latte.
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Degree mill holders have issues with veracity. If veracity is an issue, then why isn't it applicable? ;)

    Agreed. We don't know of ANY civil cases where someone has sued someone for a copyright infringement for disclosing a personal email, especially of the type that is posted in this thread. And the thought of being awarded money in a civil suit for such a ludacris claim is simply silly. :rolleyes:
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I must be a bit naive. What is the difference between a mocha and a latte?
  16. japhy4529

    japhy4529 House Bassist

    A brisk walk or an outright run to the restroom! ;)
  17. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Latte: "a latte is prepared, since the early 1980s, with approximately one third espresso and two-thirds steamed milk, with a layer of foamed milk approximately one quarter inch thick on the top. The drink is very similar to a cappuccino; the difference being that a spoon is used to separate the layers of foam and steamed milk in a latte, while the milk in a cappuccino is free-poured (lattes also typically have a far lower amount of foam)."

    Mocha: "A Café Mocha is a variant of a cafe latte. Like a latte it is typically one third espresso and two thirds steamed milk, but a shot of chocolate is added. Typically the chocolate is in the form of an Italian syrup, although less sophisticated vending systems use instant chocolate powder. Whipped cream, dustings of cocoa and marshmallows may also be added on top for flavour and decoration."
  18. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    This statement is genuinely funny :D People get awarded huge amounts of money is civil suits for ludacris claims all the time!
  19. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I like to order a vanilla and rasberry frappucino, with extra rasberry syrup!!!! Yummy!!!! I also enjoy kicking back at B & N.

    See ya,

    Abner :)
  20. macattack

    macattack New Member

    That doesn't surprise me Abner, you always seem to be a happy-go-lucky kinda guy! :)

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