The Nixon gambit?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:58 PM.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Whatever Pence may be, he's no dummy. I expect either (1) that he doesn't have the support in the Cabinet it would take to remove Trump, especially with DeVos and Chao out, and/or (2) he believes that even if he succeeded he'd be torpedoing his future prospects.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The events of Jan 6th require accountability.
    The FBI warned about possible hostilities on Capitol, why there wasn't NG deployed or more law enforcement to secure the Capitol and DC?

    I don't know the legalities of process of impeachment.
    What I find strange is, that in the House, there is no presentation of a case Pro & Con - then a vote.

    With respect to rage and pent up hatred
    reminds of the communist take over of mainland China.
    No executions thanks God, but it appears that vicious public humiliation has started.
     
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think he just going to let this go to new Senate with Harris etc.
    Questions will be raised and arguments made "the Constitution specifically says the president shall be removed from office upon impeachment." it does not say "the former president," the Senate's "jurisdiction is limited to a sitting president," barring the possibility of a trial or dispute all the way to SCOTUS.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Yeah, it does seem odd to me that Congress could remove someone from office who is not actually in office. But I'll leave that one to the constitutional lawyers. The only bet I'd make is that if such a thing happened it would quickly make its way to SCOTUS.
     
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    That's Derschowitz' argument but I think it's wrong. The power to bar someone from ever holding federal office again is not trivial nor does it cease to have meaning just because the defendant's term has ended naturally.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Also I think SCOTUS is unlikely to rule on the point. There is no appeal to the courts from a judgment of conviction in the Senate.
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Pence is politically smart. He wants to side step the lose lose scenario that you elegantly laid out.

    I'll guess that Trump will ignore his expert's counsel and pardon himself. If nothing else it would at least slow down his legal prosecution by what he hopes would be longer than it would really likely take.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    What about challenging that the trial it self is unconstitutional? That there is no seating president to unseat.
    Again, I have no clue what I'm talking about. Will not pretend I know how this things work. Maybe Trump will hire Dershowits to challenge this thing.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, Trump is now the only President in history to be impeached twice.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The part I just don't get, probably never will get, is why Trump didn’t run a "straight " campaign stressing his accomplishments over the last four years. There is a "there" there. One can legitimately disagree with the tax code changes, the calling out of China, the successful approach to the Middle Eastern deadlock but there's a lot to like in all these things and more, too. Why didn't he talk about Warp Speed and Covid relief? Improved National Park funding? But no. He spewed hate and lies and continues to spew hate and lies. Had he stuck to the truth here he might not have had occasion to lie about election fraud.
     
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    An executive pardon is a defense to a criminal prosecution. If he's charged, he would file a motion to dismiss which the trial court would either grant or deny. That decision would go almost immediately to the Court of Appeals and probably then to the Supreme Court. We will know pretty quickly whether the self pardon gambit works. My bet is not only "No" but "H*ll no!"
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And we get Biden. Oy.
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think the hostility between the Dem's and Trump starting in 2015 and intensifying over the last 4 + years created this confrontational situation.
    Imagine how match more could have been achieved if there was better cooperation between all the sides.
    Now that Biden is taking charge I hope he will be able to bridge the divide.
    Ain't going to happen overnight.
    And there was 74 Million people who didn't vote to have the great reset.
    And I speculate additional50 million also don't want it.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Just when I'm talking about cooperation and bridging the divide I see this:

    Newly-elected Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene announces
    "On behalf of the American people - on January 21st I will be filing articles of impeachment on Joe Biden.

    Symbolic?

     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    if it ever gets to Senate trial Harris can become a President.
    From what I see in new rep her determination if GOP gets majority in the House in 2022 they will impeach Biden.
    Crazy circle.
    Hope they get over the bitterness
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021 at 2:43 AM
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If by "symbolic" you mean "petty and politically futile", then yes.
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Impeach for what? He's not even in office yet.

    Over the years I've come to appreciate the Founders' wisdom in creating the Senate. I frequently vent my rage and frustration against the Senate but in fact the body serves as a brake on the hot passions of the House.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    oh, and I would happily take Harris as President.
     
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I hope that the GOP can reconstitute itself as a post-Trump conservative party. It would be a serious loss to the country if the Trump Base split the party into two hostile camps. Although I am a Democrat I have no illusions about my party. There needs to be a motivated watchdog scrutinizing everything Biden does.
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I agree completely! There are many sad scary examples of the dangers of one party rule. Communism is one but even our neighbor Mexico is another. For years they were run by just the PRI party and PAN was tiny. The corruption was rampant. So it is not just Biden that needs the watchdog, the whole government needs the watchdog.
     

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