The Lie of Immigration

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by b4cz28, Jan 31, 2017.

  1. TomE

    TomE New Member

    My problem with the observations and logic in the bolded is that it almost treats these populations as extremely cheap labor which justifies them being in the country. Like, "we need these different people to do extremely difficult and at times dangerous work!" I've never thought that this is the argument for immigration, especially for those who are primarily focused on humanitarian rationale.
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    But they are extremely cheap labor, and it does justify their coming to the U.S. Cash-strapped farms can afford them and they're willing to work hard. Everyone wins -- it's not inhumanitarian just because they don't have cushy office jobs.
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yet this is how immigration policy is formulated: whether the alien's presence is "in the interest of the country". Exception is refugee/asylee programs; Trump just suspended those for 120 days, and indefinitely for Syrians. Very humanely.
    The more pressing issue is that the whole debate is not so much about having them here. It is the issue (some) voters care about, but all the politicians on the right oppose is having them here LEGALLY. So it's OK to have these people doing backbreaking jobs; the curse work is "amnesty" - allowing these workers some human dignity and protection under the law. Otherwise, they'd plan to really crack down on employers, with real felony convictions. Paired with fixing guest worker programs. No one in GOP has any real appetite for that. I guess it helps their base if the workers can't complain about pay or conditions. Same thing about H1B program: one way to address its shortcomings is to allow workers to change employers, like with the Irish working visa I got in 2001. Also, make employment-based GCs independent of employer as well. Poof! - and consultants no longer have power over underpaid workers. I have nagging suspicion that Trump's "solution" will go in exact opposite direction, maybe along with trying to price the current mass filers from the system.
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    (1) I just told you it's OK for you to go ahead and hate immigrants, as you clearly do. How is that a personal attack? It might be difficult for you to hate black immigrants, but you'll probably manage...

    (2) Well, I do know what Christianity isn't - a religion founded on hate. Here's something of what Jesus said about that...

    (3) And my home country was the UK. I now live in Canada. IIRC, I think Stanislav does, too. He can correct me if I'm wrong. So feel free to tell Theresa May or Justin Trudeau how things should be run.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2017
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Christianity... that's the one founded by the Middle Eastern guy who fled to another country as a child to avoid persecution at the hands of a tyrant, right?
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Love it! :smile:

  7. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    What are you talking about? I think you're not being honest with yourself there. You are clearly attempting to be inflammatory. That's the standard liberal anti Christian Facebook post I see at least once a week. But the left hates Christians so I expect nothing less.

    Next us Black Christians will need to get out to make way for more progressive people right Steve?

    Don't you attend a Christian University Steve?
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2017
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    That awkward moment when "liberal Facebook" can teach a self professed Christian a thing or two; for this "standard anti Christian post" is nothing but a summary of Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 2. I was born in a freakin' Soviet Union and still know that. Does it mean that so called "Christian Right" is nothing but a heretical cult?
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If you really don't see Christ in that description, then I'm not the one engaging in self-deception. Those human beings you find so terrifying that you would rather leave them to suffer or die than allow into your precious empire, everyone single one has the face of God.

    How bizarre. You may want to check my family photo album before you try playing the race card on me. And I'm not a progressive, so you're 0 for 2 there.

    I do. And my sister is a minister. But that's all the more reason that it baffles me when I encounter Christians whose stranger fear is more important to them than the core message of their own faith.
  10. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    What's so funny about this is you quote the Bible as if you know it. I can tell you Jesus was not a Middle Easterner, not one place does it say so in the Bible.

    What happens when people mock Muslims? I bet you get angry!

    That awkward moment when a racist white foreigner comes to America for free, and earns a degree on tax payer dollars and leaves.

    If you hate Blacks, Christians and Trump, why not move back to your homeland? Why are you so obsessed with American politics? Have you no life? I have a right to care, you have none.
  11. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I was not playing the race card Steve and I know you have mixed Children as we talked about it over the years. You think those in the Middle East have it bad? Freaking Christians are being burned and raped daily in Africa, they make Syria look like a good time. This has nothing to do with lack of compassion. Where is the media outrage over Saudi Arabia not taking in refugees? They have thousands of a/c'd tents open. We are not doing great here in the US Steve. If you ran your home like our country was being run, then you would not have one. We have massive debt that will come due, over taxed systems, and a lack of jobs.

    What's wrong with us taking care of us for a change?
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This. is. perfect. You know literally all of the Gospels and the majority of Acts happen in the Middle East right? What is the family background of Virgin Mary? Are Moses and king David also "not Middle Easterners"?

    It is cute you still imagine yourself Christian. Is Supply Side Jesus in your Bible?

    Leaving after the program ends is literally the direct intent of F1 visa. I guess at least you don't pretend your hate is only towards "illegals".
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I used to be the PDSO for a small university in D.C. Foreigners don't earn degrees on taxpayer dollars. They pay out-of-state tuition rates. Even grad students with assistantships are earning their way through. And Stanislav is right, the F-1 student visa program forces students to leave after they graduate and have their year of OPT, so it's pretty nonsensical to complain that they do. (From an economic standpoint it's also a really stupid policy.)
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It shows how much b4 knows about anything he talks about, including "the Bible". Remarkable consistency.
    As an aside, President Bannon is on record complaining about legal immigration ("bigger problem than the illegals", "too many Asians in the Silicon Valley", he said), so it is not all about economics. He is at odds in this with even Spokesman Trump's stated positions. They already rolled back some extensions to the OPT.
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Well, you Christians have that whole "Do unto others" thing, right?
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Good one.

    Just to get it straight: I'm a(n inadequate) Christian. I'm not sure what he is.

    There was a movement trying to do away with Lord's Middle Eastern roots: Deutsche Christen, Reichskirche.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2017
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  18. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Wait what? Since when Israel moved out of the Middle East? I think you need a class in geography before you make that claim. Here let me help you. Israel. Is. In. The. Middle East.

    Middle Eastern Countries.

    So, time to re-think that Jesus was not from the Middle East stance. Or do you think Jesus was from Mars and Mary from Venus. :shrug:
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2017

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