That Clown Douglas and His "Book Report"

No one is saying "my doctorate is better than yours," or anything like that. But when someone (Dennis) makes an absurd comparison (CCU and Union), it is reasonable to refute it.

 

Actually, it was an e-mail to the ODA, in the form of a question.

I've never contacted any individual's employer, or other such entity, regarding his/her fake degree. In fact, I recently started a thread describing a situation where I declined to do so. You're so obsessed with what I say and do you can't even get the simple things right.

The Union library assures me they did not sell you a copy of my PDE. Could you have purchased it? I guess so. Maybe someone there actually did it. But you've been so evasive--and have lied about it before--who's to know? Better yet, who cares? All that resulted is that--by your account--you're out 36 bucks. Whether or not you actually did this isn't as funny as that!

 

The only comparison I made was that in rating respect for universities ordinally Union is a lot closer to CCU than it is to Harvard. Is this somehow untrue?

Mind you I did also say that Rich made up Gus Sainz so he could have a friend.

 

Yes, some people decline to say where they went to school and what degrees they have, if any. But they don't attempt to use those degrees as a source of authority, or evidence that their degrees are legitimate. Hayes wants us to believe a Knightsbridge Ph.D. has acceptance. Fine. He tells us he's been accepted by some professional society on the basis of his degree. Fine. But he doesn't name the society? He doesn't have to, but that makes his claim null.

Yes, I'd like to know the society that will dump him if they find out about his degree! Too funny!

 

You stated it, you prove it's true. You can't. There is no evidence to support this opinion of yours, but plenty to demonstrate it is wrong.

I look forward to the data demonstrating the relative positions of CCU and Union as you assert.

 

As soon as I can find a university ranking that includes Union, I'll get back to you.

Alan Contreras seems to think that CCU is one of the top 2 rated unaccredited universities and who am I to argue with the esteemed gentleman.

 

I have to say, I find that strange too. Someone claims to have a doctorate but refuses to say from where???

I'm not getting into the argument over whether Dr Hayes is for real or not. I don't know enough to do that. I just find it strange to state that a certain degree helped get him get into a society then refuse to say which society.

It's sort of like the old Marx Brothers joke:
"I belong to a secret fraternity."
"Which one?"
"I don't know, it's a secret."

 

(I don't necessarily agree with the ODA's list. But Dennis is the one using it to support his opinion, not me. )

 

Dennis, you continue to ignore the fact that within the USA a university must be RA for it to garner the greatest level of respect followed closely by DETC accreditation. There is probably one general education exception to this rule and it is NOT CCU (BJU). CCU is unaccredited. That puts it in the same general category as all the degree mills that ever existed. Your assertion that CCU and any RA university are close together in general respectability ranking is unsupportable. It is the highly subjective opinion of you with no supporting evidence, even if I grant you that CCU is one of the top unaccredted institutions. If it becomes accredited then you will have a sliver of an argument but not until then. Face the facts and stop deluding yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why CCU didn't apply for RA?


(In the interest of full disclosure, I am not personally interested in distance learning and Dennis has taken courses from a number of different institutions. In Dennis's opinion that means that any post I make on this forum is suspect while claiming that anything Dennis posts must be accepted since he's an expert. Note that the Dennis statement about CCU on the ODA is a huge lie since the ODA approves multiple UA schools but not CCU. Perhaps we can't trust everything that he says?)

 

With one final observation, I'm off this thread.

I'm assuming that the posters on the other irresponsible fora are, in part, angry posters here using aliases there, because they have neither the nerve nor the facts to argue here.

How indignant they wax when we admit a mistake as trivial as signing up for a lousy course at a school with problems (and the shills call admitting such a mistake shilling!) or as serious as a brief involvement in administering a school that later, after the poster left, crashed and burned), claiming in a reversal of all moral logic that honesty proves hypocrisy--or worse! (Is it not interesting that candor, in the mind of the millist, disqualifies one from expressing an opinion or presenting a fact?) How they boast of their cynicism! How they cyberstalk Rich Douglas! How they lie about John Bear!

That these are bad people is neither surprising nor terribly interesting. They are neither surprising nor terribly interesting. What is interesting is that Dennis, a man of no little ability, wit, and capacity to contribute constructively, has chosen to align himself with persons of such wretched demeanour.

Is jealousy of an accredited doctorate that strong? Is the perverts' fixation on Rich Douglas that contagious? Is the need to justify one's own educational choices, if those choices are criticized by others, so all-consuming, so one-track, so relentless, that groundless attack must displace civil discourse, and drive out an adult awareness that not everybody will appprove of all our choices and that once a reasonable defense has been made, it's time to move on, accepting the fact that not everyone will bow the knee to um CCU?

Denying this nyah-nyah mode when called on it apparently leads one to lose sight of the difference, operative among adults and persons involved in actual education, between a character assassin and a critical friend; once that distinction is lost, apparently one's own ability to maintain self-standards is impaired. There was a time when Dennis, judging by his track record, would have disdained the company of the very odd fish on the other fora (whether out of inner disinclination or merely out of prudence it is, of course, impossible to say). Sadly, that time appears to be gone.

Dennis, we hardly knew ye.

 

Hey Dennis! Try here !

But no mention of CCU

http://www.dobhran.com/humor/GRhumor58.htm

 

Thanks for this 'find' Mike. So US News must be on the take as well. Wonder how Union found enough money to bribe their way in? Perhaps by selling black market copies of Rich's dissertation.

The detailed write-up is very favorable. Union shares its 'tier' with Nova Southeastern, University of Texas, Purdue, University of Colorado, and others that it would be hard to criticize. I didn't see Walden on any US News list.

 

Union is Tier 4 - Is that good??

 

That is actually a pretty good question! How do you determine relative rank between 3 schools, when one of the schools is not even in the same catagory as the other two. Lets say that Harvard is at the top of RA and Union is at the bottom (I have no idea whether this is true or not). Lets further stipulate that CCU is at the top of unacredited. How do you then do the relative comparisons.

Polling faculty at RA schools with degrees from there seems to be a bit biased against CCU, since a large part of a Union Grad getting hired over a CCU grad may be only that Union is acredited and CCU is not.

Reputation among university professors or people in industry wouldn't work well because I'm sure most people have never heard of Union institute or CCU while almost everyone has heard of Harvard. Any distinction made between graduates of CCU and Union by people would be based less on the quality of work and more on the state of acreditation, if that was explained to them.

One way I could see it being measured is based on scholarly publications (relative to the number of degree recipients). Perhaps a weighted scale based on the respectability of the magazine in the field. Maybe we could go even further and compare generally as well as between each field. It would truely be interesting to see the results.

The scholarly publication scale could be based on total accumulation points rather than a 0-100 scale. This would prevent, or at least help offset, tight grouping at the bottom of the curve. Lets say Harvard scores a 2500, and Union scores a 1500 (I'm just making these numbers up), if CCU scores a 700, that could lend credence to the idea that Union is closer to CCU than it is to Harvard. However, if CCU scores a 250, that takes away from the argument.

I think I might build a program that does a search like that. I would love to see the numbers. It will probably take a few months, as I am a pretty busy. Google searches are fine, but a lot of academic journals are on subcription based systems, closed from google. In addition, google does not rank the prestige of the journal sources. This might be fun


Jon

 

For the sciences, such metrics already exist and are valued. Though the data are available only at considerable cost. See http://www.isinet.com/products/evaltools/esi/

 

Yes (IMHO)

If we say that Tier 5 is DETC accredited
and that Tier 6 is unaccredited then

CCU is Tier 6 - Is that good???

No (IMHO)

 

It depends. If you are looking for a degree in instructional technology, then University of South Alabama, San Diego State University and University of Memphis are all well regarded programs in that discipline (even though they are "Tier 4" using US News methodology).

If you are an evangelical Christian, then the Talbot School of Theology at Biola University is also well regarded (another "Tier 4" by US News)

If you are a mid-career professional looking to find a regionally accredited doctorate that can be tailored to a non-traditional field of study, Union is a good choice.

If you are a person working for a company that has requirement of a legal (but not necessarily accredtied) bachelor's degree for entry or promotion, CCU may be a good choice.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

Like anyhting it depends what you are looking for and how you wish to use it.

But your statment had been:

You asked, the information was furnished.

REmeber: http://www.dobhran.com/humor/GRhumor58.htm

 

1) I post on other sites but stay out of the firing line. If I had a complaint about this site, I would complain here.

2) I have known dozens of people with doctorates and have managed to hold back feelings of jealousy. Any criticisms of Union are pretty mild and praises of CCU are quite tempered. I don't actually remember saying that CCU was better than or even equal to Union, just that it does have a serious academic program. You have to realize that 100 % of the Union grads that I am somewhat familiar with are braggards and boors so my impression of the school may be likewise affected.

3) The company at some other places is different and repetitive but I am not there to ridicule anyone. I also find some of the irreverent posts creative and entertaining.

 

One, I might be a boor, but when have I bragged about anything on this board? Or, perhaps, you weren't referring to me, because you don't know me at all, Dennis. Nor I you. I prefer it that way, of course.

The only people on this board who criticize Union are (1) Union grads (Steve and I have been critical at times) and (2) those who don't have doctorates from accredited schools. Guess which group actually knows what their talking about? (Hint: it ain't you, Dennis.)