Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I hope no one stakes out that position. At least, not seriously. But its existence--while inarguable--doesn't mean it preponderates. It could just as easily be a distinction without a difference.

    The biggest problem I have with this "bias" argument is when it is used as an attempt to negate facts, not opinions. We've heard a lot of that over the past 4 years.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, such as false dossier.
    Lat 4 years can also be characterized as a continues attacks on President Trump by the media mob.
    The fact is that all presidents made decisions, actions some turnout to be good and some are not.
    The big problem is when distorted facts are presented as truthful.
     
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/chinese-parts-hidden-ownership-growing-scrutiny-inside-america-s-biggest-n1104516

    Chinese parts, hidden ownership, growing scrutiny: Inside America's biggest maker of voting machines.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/laptop-usbs-stolen-from-philadelphia-election-machine-warehouse/


    Laptop, USBs stolen from Philadelphia election machine warehouse
    Philadelphia police are investigating the theft of an employee's laptop and encrypted USB flash drives from an election machine warehouse, the Philadelphia City Commissioner's office confirmed Wednesday.

    Every elections there are some irregularities, but further investigation will reveal more if there is a reason to be specious of larger scale fraud.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is false. States conduct their elections and certify winners. I doubt any of the states have done that yet.
     
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Fine. Irrelevant, of course. But fine.
    Actually, state officials already do that. Trump's campaign doesn't get a role in that.
    It was oppo research paid for first by a Republican and then later by the Clinton campaign. That's it. Why are you still hung up on it when it was immaterial?
    Worst.President.Ever. How ELSE should he have been treated? Please point to any mainstream media maltreatment of the president.
    When and where did that occur?
    The scale of fraud necessary to "steal" a presidential election--rigging elections across many states--would leave a trail so obvious you'd know about it. Yet you have zero evidence of any of it.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Okay, but it's important to make a distinction between opinion shows--MSNBC is almost all of that 24 hours a day--and news shows. The former will naturally have biases and the latter should avoid them. The only news outlets with obvious biases seem to be both fringe and on the right.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Absolutely true, it is also part of the reason that the printed material from Fox News and CNN are much better. I should probably also mention that Fox News live broadcast shows over the past four years have taken a big in reliability as they've been catering to Trump's lies. The typical way they handle it is that they play a video of Trump telling the lie and then leave it there giving many folks the impression that the statement was true. I assume that they will return to their more "normal" reliability standard as Trump's influence fades a bit.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Trump who? :)
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    2024 US Presidential candidate. (He was saying that)
    Who will be called for the rescue in 2024 :)
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I don't know who around here has ever been involved in an election process at a granular level (besides myself I mean) but the notion that somehow this election was "rigged" is awfully hard to sustain. Keep in mind that poll watchers and vote counters come from both parties and every individual vote is passed on by poll watchers. The machines keep the tally, yes, but there are variety of machines out there. Even if you think a machine has been "hacked", that alone wouldn't be enough because the machines just read physical ballots and those ballots are carefully preserved. Rigging a national election is essentially impossible and the attempt would be immediately apparent and the alarm sounded. There were no alarms to speak of.

    Joe Biden won this one exactly as certainly as Donald Trump won in 2016.
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    But in 2016 Democrats claimed and I quote NY Times:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/us/politics/russian-hacking-elections.html
    So Russia didn't think rigging a national election is impossible. How about Chinese?
    In GA
    The counties use voting machines made by Dominion Voting Systems and electronic poll books
    Ridley elections supervisor said that a representative from the two companies called her after poll workers began having problems with the equipment Tuesday morning and said the problem was due to an upload to the machines by one of their technicians overnight.

    That is something that they don’t ever do. I’ve never seen them update anything the day before the election,” Ridley said. Ridley said she did not know what the upload contained.
    Neither Dominion nor KnowInk responded to a request to comment.

    Friday press conference that “in Antrim County, ballots were counted for Democrats that were meant for Republicans, causing a 6,000 vote swing against our candidates. The county clerk came forward and said, ‘tabulating software glitched and caused a miscalculation of the votes.'”
    Cox said that “since then, we have now discovered that 47 counties used this same software in the same capacity,” or more than half of Michigan’s 83 counties.
    Imagine if out of 47 x counties all had glitches with thousands votes going to Biden, 47 x 5000 = 235,000 hmm - did they all had night before software updates?
    Antrim County uses Dominion Voting Systems.
    It’s natural to wonder whether similar problems could have occurred in other jurisdictions that use the same machine. Michigan has manual process to compare results so this possibly would have been detected if this took place.

    Let the competent authorities investigate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    You would have to demonstrate that hacking efforts succeeded. I dont think that there's any evidence that they did.
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Look, Lerner, it's over. On January 20, Joe Biden will be sworn in.
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Someone has to provide some Conservative points of view in this discussion, as majority appear more on the left side.

    But my point is that if Russians and Left used this excuse then why can''t republicans use it now.
    And still to see what kind of cooperation the 71 million who voted for Trump will get.
    All I remember is that Dem's boycotted Trumps inauguration etc, on the state of the union tore the speech record,
    When Trump gave them more then they asked on DACA they turned it down, On infrastructure they turned that down.
    Constant attacks by the left media mob.
    Now Biden is calling for unity, its wonderful but you understand why 71 million who voted for Trump reluctant to believe.

    And the Biden team is promising that Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.) will not be disappointed by the president-elect’s “incredibly progressive and aggressive agenda” once he takes office.
    So not over, we have GA Senate runoff, one important seat to win in Jan 21.
    Need to take over the house in 2022, etc.
    So this is on going.
    I hope the Biden's unity speech will become reality, as he will be my president next 4 years or as many as God provides.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Could be. But more likely he is either in prison or in exile.
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Also because there wasn't one election for president. There were 51 of them.
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    These kinds of empty statements imply there was some wrong-doing that needs to be investigated. There wasn't. And no one is saying allegations to the contrary should not be investigated. What they're saying is that it didn't happen. Big difference.

    Huge claims require huge evidence. That doesn't seem to exist.
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Even as it didn't exist in 2016 when Trump won the Electoral College fair and square.
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There was a lot of talk about Hillary being in prison back then in 2016 witch chants of lock her up etc.
    I can be wrong, but I think as long as there is peaceful transition on time most likely he will be enjoying good life and will be playing golf in South Beach Florida.
    Maybe to prevent him from running in 2024 some Dem's will go after him also a possibility.

    From what I read and hear there is evidence of fraud and irregularities that needs to be investigated by the competent authorities. If no evidence and no fraud than its good for our country.
    The talk is about 4 or 5 states not 51. These are the states were President Trump was leading on Tuesday and thinks that there were irregularities and fraud.
    So Coming week, weeks we will see how this unfolds.
    Congratulations on the victory.
     
  19. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Member

    o_O Not so much.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yeah. Except she was exonerated and Trump stands accused and under active investigation. Guilty? No, not yet. But the comparison to Clinton is weak tea.

    Oh, I doubt the nature of the transition will have any affect on the decisions made by Cyrus Vance, Letitia James, and the Biden Justice Department.

    If he's not guilty of anything, it doesn't matter who "will go after him," right?

    Sources, please. So far, there's been no credible accusation of such backed up by evidence. Except the Trump voter who submitted his dead mother's absentee ballot. (Fair, since she was certainly absent on Election Day.) https://news.yahoo.com/trump-supporter-arrested-requesting-absentee-234948543.html

    That's what it is: talk. By the losers. With no evidence to support it. Even pulling that off would be historic. Saying things like that implies there are irregularities to investigate, when there have been none.

    Yes, like it always does. Like it always has. Because there's nothing to indicate otherwise. Stop implying it. Admit that there's no evidence of anything of the kind.
     

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