Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think like many foods and drinks, Beer is something that one needs to develop a taste to it. Most people I know didn't like it when they tasted it for the first few times.
    I barely drink alcohol. I like wine. And I like some beers.
    When I was a kid my dad used to send me to buy beer, these days there was a big barrel and a person selling beer. One would have to bring a glass or similar jar or container to get it filled with beer.
    On a way back while I was carrying it home I would taste it from time to time. I was discussed with the taste and asked how can someone dring this thing?
    But later when I was in my early 20s friends ordered a beer, it was ice cold and some brand I tasted for the first time and I liked it.
    With Vodka does not matter how many times my dad or uncles gave me to try I hated it.
    And to this day I can't stand it. My friends call me fake Russian. Even so, I wasn't born in Russia but fr them anyone from the Soviet Union is Russian.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's either pretty close or dead-on. In maybe 60 years of hearing/reading this statement, there's never been a significant variance in the percentage population (75-80%) and I've never heard the number of miles exceed 75. I'm part of it. I haven't lived more than 50 miles from the border in my 68 years in Canada. Sometimes, less than 20 miles. Just looking at a map will confirm the statement.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And I think it was (Canadian) comedian Gavin Crawford who described his fellow Canadians as "unarmed Americans with health care." I think he was pretty close to the truth on that one. Last time I quoted him I got a small-but-angry chorus of "Ah, shut up, Johann - we have health care too." Sure you do... I guess -- but not like we do. Quite a few times over the years, I've heard transplanted Americans asked why they moved to Canada. Often the answer is something like "We moved here primarily for the health care, but then (we liked it here, career took off, college cost less for kids, etc. etc. etc.)

    I'll say no more about it or I'll be branded a "socialist." I think that's the American word for Marxist-Leninist, which I'm decidedly not. And yes - it WAS a Socialist Premier - Tommy Douglas, who got us onto this system. Many years after his death, he was named "The Greatest Canadian" in a National radio poll, for that single accomplishment. I'm done now. I'd better be. I'm unpopular enough around here already -- not that it bothers me a whole lot.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's fair, our system does differ in important ways, such as wait times for non-emergency care. For example, when I had a terrible stye, I went to an ophthalmologist with no appointment, had minor surgery on it that very afternoon, and paid $40 out of pocket.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Some good things happen in every system Steve - but so do some really bad ones. Otherwise, there would not be the terrifying amount of medical-related debt owed by Americans. Your private insurance system appears to me as predatory.* It's riddled with exclusions, deductibles, pre-existing condition rules etc. etc. I'm glad you were only out of pocket $40 but many Americans have different experience. They get, say, an open-heart or a cancer operation (I've had both - 100% successful, thanks) that costs up to $100K or more and they're in debt for the rest of their lives - or bankrupt if they simply don't have resources to pay a large residual - or worse - if they have to pay the whole thing.

    I'm glad your experience was good. Doesn't work the same for everyone. Stanislav wrote a couple of posts ago "What I WANT is my OHIP back." Don't blame him. Lots to worry about, if you or someone in your family gets sick in US. Here (and in every other developed country, so I'm told) all you have to concentrate on is getting well.

    * One poster here noted he was paying $900 a month for health insurance coverage for his family. That's ridiculous, in my book. The guy was a Veteran, who'd served his country!
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    My premium pushes $800 - as a Texas A&M University System employee. In other words, pretty much the best employee benefits plan in this neck of the wood. And the plan has deductibles.

    Also, private coverage and universal coverage are different products. With OHIP, I was covered no matter what. I was laid off days before my daughter was born; didn't have to wonder what this means for healthcare. That little OHIP card is with me no matter my employment, income, personal circumstances. Most Americans can't buy this kind of peace of mind for any price. Exceptions are seniors who qualify for Medicare and veterans with VA coverage - two public systems.
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes, good ol' Tommy Douglas, AKA thinking man's Bernie. They literally do not make politicians like this anymore; both major parties in Canada right now are pretty much [email protected] With possible exception of my carol-singing partner Chrystia Freeland, but we have to wait until she's PM to be sure.
    Johann likes this.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Agree totally - on the major parties and Chrystia. I think her appointment was about the smartest thing that's happened in Ottawa for a long time.
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    We all have high premiums for our families but we also have coverage. It's 5 of us and one child is seriously ill. He gets hospitalized every year for weeks.
    Our plan so far works well. If we had to use AKA ( most likely not at this time as the benefit if via employer) but my friend was unemployed and was paying 150 for ACA.
    He can tell about the 100's in deductibles, limited visits that also cost money, and crazy expanses for real treatment.
    This was crazy.
    I would prefer Mbasic national coverage for all and additional insurance by choice, by benefits not punishing anyone and definitely trying no to kill the innovation.
    AKA mostly didn't work, it helped to have an insurance card with high deductibles and low coverage, based on the experience of my friends and relatives who used it but were forced to buy it.
    Some felt luck to have any type of coverage and I'm absolutely against leaving millions of people out of coverage,.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I'd rather people paid out of pocket for normal expenses and relied on term health insurance to cover catastrophic issues. I would also decouple health insurance from employment (it's that way because of the tax code, not because it makes any sense). I'd give more latitude to PAs and NPs for routine issues. I'd let unspent money in HSAs roll over (seriously WTF is up with that?). I'd allow duty-free consumer import of pharmaceuticals, and I'd make a lot more pharmaceuticals available over the counter and/or allow prescribers to specify unlimited refills for medicines that treat chronic conditions.

    In other words, despite my good experience with it I'd agree there's a lot of room for improvement with the current system of third party payment for routine expenses, and opaque pricing for services both small and large. But the range of options here is far more broad than just the false dichotomy of "either keep the current system or else implement M4A", which seems to be most of the conversation surrounding healthcare in the U.S. (Although that's not surprising when Republicans are so useless for promoting actual alternatives rather than just kvetching about the ACA and not actually doing much about it.)
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I think everyone must be able to afford healthcare, as a human right. With this goal, a system not unlike M4A is simpler and more effective than the alternatives, very much including ACA (even Biden's public option).

    I also think that right now, M4A is politically and practically hard/impossible to actually achieve, in short/medium term. I'd rather have some system that can cover as many people as possible now than keep preaching about M4A and feeling smug about it. "M4A or bust" is a bernie-bro position that I despise. Dishonest, too - Bernie in fact did vote for ACA.

    In fact, among the Dem primary candidates. Bernie was my second-least favorite, only because Tulci Gabbard gave off more of a "Russian plant" vibe. Perhaps not surprising; I do blame him for Hillary loss in 2016, along with various other people. Sanctimonious old fart, diplomatically speaking.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You do realize this is slightly left of Biden's plan, right? In fact, if his public option comes with automatic enrollment (as it probably should), this is exactly it. Biden/Harris 2020!
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Ideally, everyone is covered and the level of medical coverage is superb.
    This is what I would wish to my fellow Americans and everyone living in this country.
    Is it achievable? At what cost and level of abuse and fraud? Nothing is perfect.
    This is where I deviate from the mainstream GOP, and on Immigration. I would also like to strengthen our alliances

  14. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    That is a GREAT quote. It's dead on true plus hilarious!

    Stansislav said it best. "I think everyone must be able to afford healthcare, as a human right." That's basically how it works everywhere else in the industrialized world. Here in the USA we spend twice as much per person on health insurance but our results are much worse.

    U.S. health care spending in 2016 totaled 17.2 percent of GDP, compared to just 8.9 percent for the OECD median. Not only does the U.S outspend other OECD countries, on the whole it has less access to many health care resources. Jan 7, 2019

    The importance of healthcare unfortunately has to be down graded a notch or two though when we have a dictator wannbe President trying to get his supporters to commit voter fraud for him though. :)
    Johann likes this.
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Glad you enjoyed it, Bill. The last time I floated Gavin's quip as a trial balloon, I got the "Ah, shut up - we have healthcare!" response. I'm pleased with the change.

    Yes - every developed country except the US, I'm told.

    Sadly, I think this is true. The condition of healthcare, outrageous gun violence, downgrading of democracy, prevalence of police brutality etc. lead me to think of America as well-developed economically, but a country that is presently less civilized in some important aspects than it should be. I know I'm better off here as an old person than I would be in U.S. I receive two Government pensions - one I paid into, one I didn't have to. I was pretty well flat broke when I got to 65, but now I have more money saved than at any time in my working years.

    I live in not-the-best end of a large city (one of the 10 largest in Canada) yet I can walk a mile to my favourite supermarket after dark with complete peace of mind. I don't think I'd leave Canada for any amount of money - and so far, the Prime Minister has yet to put a decent offer on the table. :)
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    ROBERT CARDILLO is a fellow with the following back ground,

    "I spent over 300 mornings in the Oval Office briefing the president and his senior staff. I had the privilege to manage, edit and deliver the president’s Daily Brief a summary of the most timely and critical intelligence threats to the U.S. from 2010 to 2014.

    As a Deputy on the National Security Council, I spent over 1,000 hours in the White House Situation Room providing the intelligence assessments which informed critical U.S. national security policy decisions — including the raid that rendered justice for the victims of 9/11.

    Since I have been eligible to vote, I have never registered with a political party. I remain an independent with a history of voting for candidates I believe in — I focused on their policy and not their party. Before this election, I have never spoken out for or against a candidate for any office."

    He basically says Trump is not fit to be President.

    "While it is natural for there to be tension between the intelligence community and senior policymakers, President Donald Trump’s decision to rely upon the word of dictators like Vladimir Putin is an unprecedented betrayal of his oath to the Constitution. Our current president bases his decisions on his instincts, and his instincts are based upon a personal value proposition — what’s in it for me?

    As a Commander in Chief, President Trump comes up tragically short.
    And as damaging as his faulty leadership has been, four more years would be devastating.

    We must elect a thoughtful, moral, responsible, respectful leader on Nov. 3. Our current president is not that leader."

  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    "If you pay attention to the Drive-By Media, if you watch CNN or MSNBC, if you read the New York Times, you probably believe that Joe Biden has already won the election.
    CNN is going all-in on literally ginning up a civil war after the election. All of this talk about Trump not leaving the White House, the military might have to be brought in.
    Look at the real truth of the matter:
    The Democrats are the ones who cannot accept what happened in 2016. It is Hillary Clinton who’s telling Joe Biden, “Whatever you do, never concede!”
    We have been in a pre-revolution mind-set because the Democrats refuse to accept that they lost in 2016. It is the Democrats who are setting up revolutionary behavior.
    There is a revolution happening right in front of our eyes, right around us.
    Would Democrats accept the results of the election if they loose?

    There’s a group of people, voters, out there that everybody is convinced, pollsters are not finding.
    People voters fed up with the attempts to run Trump out of office.
    They’re fed up with all the scandals that have been perpetrated.
    They’re fed up with Russia this, Russia that. They’re fed up of hearing Biden’s got the thing sewn up.
    They’re tired of hearing Biden in a landslide, like Hillary.
    They can’t wait to go out there and prove every damn one of you in the media wrong again.
    At the same time they can’t wait to go out there and save their country, and they really believe that that’s what Donald Trump is.
    Donald Trump will save this country from the American left. That equals enthusiasm.

    We’re in the Midst of a Violent Revolution Started by the Left.
    The rioting and the looting, the destruction of private property, all of this is happening because it’s being committed by people on the left.
    Those are the people engaged in this activity. They are the ones looting. They are the ones firebombing. They are the ones that are destroying. They’re the ones threatening.
    They are the ones literally trying to grab people out of their cars and beat them up. They are the people who are attacking people in public, in restaurants and other places and harassing them and bullying them and threatening them physically. This is all being done by people on the left, and it’s all being done by people who are going to vote Democrat.

    Democrat operatives are buying and spending money and donating money for the purposes of these activists to engage in their destructive behavior.
    They’re literally in some places burning the country down.
    Much of this destruction, much of this activity is taking place in Democrat locations, Democrat cities, Democrat states.
    Democrat voters elected the people who are standing aside and letting the destruction in these cities and states take place.
    The Trump base is invisible! Nobody knows who they are.
    The Trump base actually is afraid to be identified because they are afraid of what will be done to them!
    So they are going about their lives as invisibly as they can.
    Meanwhile, the actual domestic terrorists are out engaging in domestic terrorism every day and have been for the past six months or longer."

    From Maharashi himself.
    heirophant likes this.
  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I should mention that the opinion piece written by ROBERT CARDILLO was titled

    Guest Commentary: I served under six presidents — four Republicans, two Democrats — only one has failed to serve U.S. national security interests

    I'll also mention that one of the six Presidents that he served under and is still serving under (at least for the time being) is Donald Trump. He personally knows President Trump far better than anyone here does and he says, "As a Commander in Chief, President Trump comes up tragically short" This is not an opinion piece that is out to get anyone. This was obviously written out of a patriotic and sincere concern for the well being of our country.
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    With all the respect Mr. Cardillo sill serving under (at least for the time being till Jan 20th, 2021) President Trump who legitimately won the 2016 elections, without the Russians.
    There are other officials who serve under President Trump who have a different opinion. Saing that I think his opinion should be heard by concerned Americans and given appropriate attention.

    Actually I watched him on the MSNBC Rachel Maddow show, when I flipped the channel I saw the last half of the interview.
    In my opinion, it would have been better if there was an opposite side reporter who could ask additional questions not influenced by the left media.
    I'm still digesting what was said by Mr. Cardillo.
    He appears as a respected gentleman with a service record to our country's top leadership.
    Besides him going on MSNBC which is in my opinion a leading left media disinformation outlet, I have nothing negative to say. And who am I to judge?
    Some issues he mentioned bothered me in the past especially our relations with the US allies such as Curds and the handling of intelligence info when it relates to our enemies.

    As president Donald Regan said - Doveray e Proveray. Meaning - Trust but Verify.

    “David Priess, a former C.I.A. daily intelligence briefer said: “Many intelligence judgments in history have not had the consensus of every analyst who worked on it.
    That’s the nature of intelligence. It’s inherently dealing with uncertainty.”
    American people elected President Trump in 2016 trusting him to lead our country.
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Sheriff from Kenosha County: President Donald Trump was with us when we needed him
    David Beth, Opinion contributor
    Sat, September 26, 2020, 5:00 AM EDT

    On the first of the month, I had the honor of meeting with President Donald Trump for a round-table discussion addressing the violence that recently took hold of our community.

    I saw first-hand the support, gratitude and steadfast resolve our president holds for the law enforcement community. The president arrived with a plan to provide the critical resources needed to keep our community safe.

    When the violence began, we had immediately put in the call to have local and state resources respond to the situation. Many responded, but we still needed more help. This is where the president stepped up and offered us the full resources of the federal government.

    “Whatever you need, it’s coming,” the president relayed to me.

    Trump's strong support is why I'm endorsing him
    It was a powerful moment for us. While we know our local and state partners are the best in the business, having the extra support of our federal partners was absolutely critical in quelling the violence.

    The president’s swift and bold response to support our law enforcement family and my community made it clear that he’s the strong leader Wisconsin and America needs. It’s also why I am proud to endorse President Trump for re-election this fall.

    Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth in Wisconsin welcomes President Donald Trump on on Sept. 1, 2020.
    It’s not just me. Thirty-eight other Wisconsin sheriffs have also endorsed the president. President Trump is backing the blue and we are proud to back him.

    At a time when violence is popping up in communities across the country, picking our nation’s top leader is more important than ever. Wisconsin, and all of America, needs a leader who will uphold the law, or we won’t have a country left.

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