Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    C'mon, Lerner. Don't pretend you don't know how to properly pronounce that phrase and transliterate it into English. As we both know, it's Russian: Доверяй, но проверяй, And the English transliteration is more like 'Doveryay no Proveryay." Your spelling makes it sound more like some kind of mumbled, medieval Latin, from a misbehaving monk who's been pinching the Sacramental wine.

    And it wasn't said by "President Donald Regan." It was said by his boss, Ronald Reagan. The late Donald Regan was never President.

    "Donald
    Thomas Regan (December 21, 1918 – June 10, 2003) was the 66th United States Secretary of the Treasury from 1981 to 1985 and the White House Chief of Staff from 1985 to 1987 under Ronald Reagan." - Wikipedia

    And what's the deal with posting whole long screeds of Trump propaganda here? A link would do nicely. And Tell your friend Mr. Trump. the next time you see him that a few more masks would have been OK too. About five of them IIRC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yes, you got me, Ronald Regan.
    And translation Trust but Verify is not bad.

    Donald Trump is a good President to bad the left still trying to sabotage his presidency.
    The revolution they are bringing upon us is horrible to the national security of the USA.
    The left media is distorting most of the things it reporting.
    It always the arm in support of the Dem's, in Nov we will know if it was sufficient disinformation campaign.

    Especially that Biden and Harris are not seen much, they think it's already in their pocket. And risk making an error especially that it's unknown
    the health state of Biden and his ability if he shows up and treatments for the upcoming Wednesday debate, if it happens.
    Pelosi is saying/urging he should not attend. Harris is also almost invisible.
    All is mostly orchestrated by the drive-by left media.
     
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - the translation was perfectly good. It was the transliteration (English spelling of the Russian original) I was arguing about. Doesn't really matter.

    I'm perfectly OK with you stating your position in your own words, as above. That's completely fair - my objection is to some media writer's blurb with pics being reproduced whole, here in the forum.
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Understood, agree.
    I can't edit it anymore.
    A link would have been sufficient.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/steele-dossier-source-suspected-russian-103028627.html

    The FBI, several of whose investigators were found by the IG to be overtly anti-Trump, failed to corroborate Steele’s information. Yet, the bureau represented that it was “verified” to the FISC, which thus proceeded to issue warrants against Page on the theory that the Trump campaign — even, perhaps, the nascent Trump administration — was in a corrupt conspiracy with the Kremlin.

    That is, a suspected Russian spy was used by our government to frame an American as a suspected Russian spy. A good friend of mine likes to say, “It’s always worse than you think.” That’s a fine epitaph for the Trump-Russia investigation.
    The fake basis for the FISA court warrant.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    OK, bottom line is Trump campaign had at least two people with DEEP ties with Kremlin affiliated big business, and a link to (Kremlin-linked) WikiLeaks (through Roger Stome, whose pardon is naked witness tampering). Which can only mean one thing... let's question the CIA. Sounds about right!

    Help me solve a puzzle here - a profiteer in multimillion dollar debt to Oleg f...ing DERIPASKA comes to lead Trump campaign for free... why exactly? Because he loves his country?
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Providing healthcare to more people, even at basic level, violates the main guiding principle of what became of the mainstream GOP. It's a Supply Side Gospel: poor people are sinners before the face of the All Mighty Dollar and must suffer. Rich people are righteous, and must be further rewarded. Safety-net programs therefore are sinful and must be undermined, if politically possible. So Said St. Ayn Rand.

    Immigration is one of their main ways to dupe non-1% to vote for them - by claiming the forriners (AKA people like you and me) are to blame for all problems. This, and newly-invigorated "law and order" agenda (good all-fashioned racism).
    So remind me again, how come you support GOP and Trump (who fully supports Supply Side and is the king of immigration moral panic)?

    P. S. Where you and I are from, people who supported law enforcement vs. protesters (Anti-Maidan) also support Russian invasion. So do most Trumpists. I shouldn't be surprised to see a Ukrainian in this camp, but I still am. #HeavenlyHundred.
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I think the logic is that a FISA warrant applied for early in the investigation that was not filled out properly and broke the FISA application rules means that the Presidential campaign that had about 100 times more suspicious contacts with Russia than any other campaign in USA history and was investigated by a special prosecutor that couldn't find proof that would stand up in court that the Trump Campaign broke the law means that Trump is being unfairly harassed by the left and completely innocent of anything.

    Unfortunately this logic ignores the fact that the investigation was run by Republicans and that just because enough evidence couldn't be uncovered to PROVE a crime, it doesn't mean that a crime didn't occur. especially when THE person most directly involved in such a crime (besides President Donald Trump) was pardoned by the President before he would have to squeal on his boss to stay our of prison.
     
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My thoughts and concerns are also about my children, all born here in the The US. It's their future that I think would be brighter if the conservative way of life is upheld.

    Stanislav since the mid 80's I never even one day felt that I'm a foreigner.
    Americans opened the door for me to immigrate here and are the most welcoming, helping people.
    I never got a single $ from any system, from day one I worked and thankful for the opportunities. There were some hard times, I had to move to other states when the job situation required that, etc.
    I try to give back to my country the USA, I support a number of charities, volunteered in food banks. Currently, I modestly support organization that provides shelter and food to the homeless.
    We try within the mission not to turn away a single person who needed shelter, food, and an adult school that operates within the mission. In addition to the mission, I support Chabad.
    In the 90's I tried to volunteer to join the Navy Air Force reserve but unfortunately, due to small health issues, I didn't qualify.

    If I had an influence I rather do change from within a more conservative movement I'm somewhere center in my views in GOP.
    Today, the left is way radical and conniving, according to immigrants tey are using immigrants to whom they are making empty promises.
    It appears once they get elected the immigrants are forgotten, not my words, ask immigration groups, especially Latinos.
    Do you recall children in cages pictures from the Obama era 2014?
    Neglecting the borders for uncontrolled crossings of criminals and drugs, human trafficking, and caravans with thousands of migrants, that are funded by US enemies.
    Each country has the right to regulate its borders and sofar all parties failed on this issue.
    God knows who was crossing into our country.

    On Healthcare:
    "The Republican party believes in a patient-centered health care system, which is based in free markets, fostering competition, and driving health care costs down."
    As a whole, the Republican Party believes that the more freedom the people have in choosing their health care, and their own way of managing their health care costs, the more effectively the entire system will run.
    I would like to preserve this freedom, but also have a layer of national coverage. Some say MEDICARE is that level.
    Not the type where one has to bring his pillow, bad, meds, and pay for their surgery, etc. But a national coverage with value.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill,
    We defer on this issue, as people who submitted the FISA warrants knew well that it was based on false information.
    It’s been a disaster from the get-go that never should have been brought as a prosecution, much less as an investigation.
    Newly released text messages between Federal Agency analysts show that they were so worried about the agency’s case that they took out liability insurance.
    analysts were “certain they were going to be sued.

     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I hate to have this conversation with Lerner, because had he been a little bit curious about what's going on in our shared ancestral home, he would have some insight. Paul Manafort is President Yanukovych's long-term advisor; reports "credit" him with strategies that kept the country divided along East-West axis. To be blunt, he helped build a foundation for Russian aggression that is ongoing now; no wonder, considering his ties to Deripaska (a tycoon who came on top of the bloody Aluminum Wars and is like top 5 closest to Putin) and his business partner in Ukraine who is literally cadre GRU spy. Obama admin went soft on that hornet's nest, lest to appear politically motivated. Now claiming Trump had it unfair is mind-boggling.

    You hit the nail on the head on the whole Stone-Assange angle. Lerner should have better nose for KGB involvement that I have; that one was not even subtle (they hardly do "subtle" anymore; just look at all the poisonings).
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    FISA shmisa, Lerner. Plain fact: the only campaign harmed by the Obama's DoJ was Hillary Clinton's, with Comey getting the taste for the dramatic in the nothingburger e-mails investigation. You did read the "total exoneration" Mueller's report, right? It fails to find coordination", but affirms both Russian meddling and ties to the Trump campaign; along with 10 counts of what have been obstruction if DoJ had the authority to charge sitting President., FFS.

    P. S. Talk about the rules changing. Remember Bill Clinton, and Ken Starr investigation? Everyone remembers the blue dress, but no one remembers Starr investigated all the blockbuster Clinton "scandals": Vince Foster, Whitewater, Travelgate,... Starr literally exonerated Bill on every of these counts; found there was no wrongdoing (and incidentally, that Foster did really commit suicide). In 2016, Bruce tried to prove to me that Hillary is corrupt by posting a link to article about "top 10 Clinton crimes", with literally item 1 "they killed Foster", and Whitewater like #3. But TRUMP, oh no, "fake investigation", "total exoneration".
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah... it makes more sense when you provide proof of Obama admin's EXCESS in enforcing borders while claiming they "neglect borders for uncontrolling crossings" yadda yadda, we'll all gonna die.
    Truth is, not even one Dem politician is "radical left". Not even Bernie, and screw that guy. The right uses this smear for anyone who wants to use government to help less fortunate (who are, remember, sinners who must suffer - Supply Side Gospel) and/or bring taxes 0.5% closer to what they were under Eisenhover. GOP, meanwhile, is full of radicals - both racist like Steve King and "economic" ones with ideas like destroying Social Security.

    Frpm business POW, current healthcare system is very efficient: it vacuums up crazy sums of money for mediocre service, and extorts everyone to pay (at threat of literally death); what's not to like?
    Again, your stated preference on healthcare is to the left of Biden, mate. You fell for propaganda and fear mongering to vote against your actual beliefs.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Stanislav,
    Rules changing is something that is by partizan. Do you think for example if Dem's had a majority in Senate right now they wouldn't hurry and nominate and confirm a liberal Justice?
    They would ignore the request of Justice Ruth G and it wouldn't be mentioned in the news at all.
    Tne comparison that some are making is to a Football game.
    The opposing teams are playing to win, and especially over time, whoever scores first wins the game.
    As to President Trump, The media and Dems, and false Investigation based on the false dossier, it was proven that there was no Russian Collusion.
    The media and Dems are now profiting politically with another possible fake story. Just like the Russian collusion. By the time it will be proven the NYT
    was wrong, the damage already done. Yet this was well coordinated as a lot of pins and banners, stuff was ready immediately.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    On immigration:
    Both parties acted to help immigrants, it was under republicans - Amnesty signed into law by Ronald Reagan on November 6, 1986.
    Amnesty was granted and I don't know how many but millions of immigrants (3 million to 8) - less fortunate became residents and naturalized citizens.
    In 2000, amnesty was granted to about 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed they should have been amnestied but were not under the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. -Legal Immigration Family Equity (LIFE) Act Amnesty of 2000 removed deportation orders and/or granted permanent legal residency to an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens.

    As to healthcare:
    I'm for improving the current system, ACA, unfortunately, made it much worse.
    We need both a bipartisan effort to make it better and more efficient.
    I don't want the needy to lose their coverage. I don't want people not to be able to get medical coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
    I don't want working self-employed to have an illusion that they have coverage under ACA, all they have is a useless card with huge deductibles and very limited coverage.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    You are absolutely correct. The FISA warrant and the Steele dossier are extremely minor subtext occurrences in the whole Russia meddling in the 2016 election and the Mueller report. Yet Lerner is stuck on those two things simply because that is what Donald Trump wants. You see, Donald Trump is not lying to you and me. Donald Trump fabricates his whole web of lies just for his supporters like Lerner. Trump doesn't lie to us because we won't believe his lies.

    Just watch, in the next few days Trump will weave a web of lies about the stories breaking on Trump tax returns becoming available to the NY Times. Whatever lies Trump settles on that is what Lerner will start repeating. Trump deducted $70,000 dollars a year for his hair. It shows that he has been a business failure for years losing millions of dollars over the past 2 decades. He has something like $421 million dollars in loans coming due in the next 4 years. Making him extremely vulnerable to foreign influence. He has received tens of millions dollars from foreign sources since taking office, in violation of the emoluments clause of the constitution.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    We will see in the future the same as what we saw with Russia Collusion. But the NY Times and left media already a judge and the executioner.
    Fake distorted left media disinformation. But the damage is done now so we see a full-blown attack the "eve" of elections. The waves of lies are propagating now via the left media.
    time will show if this is just another fake news.

    Why are not telling about Biden lies? The lies for these politicians are a way of life.
    Do I need to post them here?
     
  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If you're trying to assert that Biden lies more or even as much as Trump then I'm more than willing to take up that challenge! :)

    The right grumbling about the media is the go to comeback when presented with uncomfortable truths. I really loved the fact that Trump's first response to questions about the NY Times reporting last night was that it was totally made up and then today they switched to there needs to be an investigation into the IRS to see who released his tax returns. Don't despair, I'm sure that President Trump is working on some October surprise, maybe arresting Biden or announcing an investigation or (?). Although it appears that the Durham Report plan didn't pan out, I have to assume that Trump had a back up plan for his October surprise.
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The uncomfortable thrusts were presented for more than 2 years on Russian Collusion and a range of the issues turned out to be orchestrated by left disinformation media.
    So I'm not trusting the drive-by media. You are free to accept any news.

    IRS was used in the past to target Conservatives?
    IRS signed a consent decree in federal court in which it admitted to targeting conservative organizations for more than two years, from 2010 through 2013. It confessed that:
    its treatment of [conservative organizations] during the tax-exempt determinations process, including screening their applications based on their names or policy positions, subjecting those applications to heightened scrutiny and inordinate delays, and demanding of some Plaintiffs’ information that TIGTA [U.S. Treasury Inspector General, Tax Administration] determined was unnecessary to the agency’s determination of their tax-exempt status was wrong"

    For additional information, you can ask Biden, it was when he was a VP.
    IRS “developed and used inappropriate criteria to identify applications from organizations with the words Tea Party in their names …
    IRS appeared to be acting at the suggestion, though not the direct request, of President Obama and VP Biden and leading Democratic lawmakers.
    This was not a case of mere “mismanagement,” but a bureaucracy responding to the political demands of the party then in power.

    The question to ask if the information was obtained lawfully? And if the information is verifiable, correct.
    I will wait with the final conclusions because the left media is not trustworthy when it comes to reporting on President Trump.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You mean how Mueller documented more than 100 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian officials?

    Please do.
     

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